XL2 and Ipod?

Chris Hurd · October 16th, 2004, 10:43 AM

D'oh. Well, there you go, thanks Nick. Not much help to the XL2 crowd though.

Jeff Donald · October 16th, 2004, 10:48 AM

But does Sony put power over the cable or did they use the 6-pin connection for better handling and build quality?

Boyd Ostroff · October 16th, 2004, 12:34 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : iPods are not microdrives. -->>>

Jeff, I understand your point about the iPod itself being an external firewire drive. However, according to this article in MacWorld, inside the iPod mini there is indeed a 4GB Hitachi CF microdrive: http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/mac911/2004/03/000091

Quote:

Determined to salvage what I could from my former music player, I disconnected its hard drive, unwrapped the black plastic tape from around it, removed its three blue bumpers, and -- because I understood that this 4GB Hitachi microdrive was encased in a Compact Flash form -- plugged it into my USB LaCie Hexa Media Drive.

Peter was saying that these devices can't sustain the 25mbs data transfer rate needed for video. I have no idea whether or not this is true...

Jeff Donald · October 16th, 2004, 12:59 PM

I thought we were discussing iPods not iPod minis. The minis do indeed use microdrives, but 4GB is impractical for DV, yielding only about 15 minutes of recording time. iPods have 40GB capacity with a 60 GB on the way.

Boyd Ostroff · October 16th, 2004, 01:20 PM

Ah.... mea culpa!

Ignacio Rodriguez · October 16th, 2004, 09:44 PM

So there's an idea for somebody to tackle the XL2 SDK: write software for the XL2 so it can write a DV stream to any FW hard drive.

Boyd Ostroff · October 17th, 2004, 09:27 AM

I thought that the SDK just provided a way for a computer program to "talk" to the XL-2. How could it be used to interface a "dumb" device like a disk drive?

Ignacio Rodriguez · October 17th, 2004, 10:10 AM

I was under the impression that the SDK could modify the camera's firmware. Of course I might be wrong. There is also the other route: write code so the built-in processor in the iPod does the trick. I understand the iPod runs an OS developed by Sun Microsystems, and surely it already knows how to talk to the built in hard drive, so it might not require much work, should be able to work with a lot of cameras... I hope somebody tries it. Then again, the iPod is not exactly cheap. Would be really nice to be able to do such a thing with any FW hard drive.

Alfredo Castil · October 18th, 2004, 10:25 AM

the software could be included on the FW drive if the firmware does not have enough storage to apply the SDK programs, the only modification on the xl2's firmware would be something like

seek file X

execute.

Only an idea.

Jeff Donald · October 18th, 2004, 10:34 AM

The processor in the iPod is hardly fast enough to do the processing of a DV stream. I'm also pretty sure the OS is an Apple variant and not written by Sun Microsystems.

Bill Ravens · October 18th, 2004, 10:39 AM

SDK's, typically, describe how to access and use variable features built into the firmware of a device. In the case of the XL2, I think the SDK will describe how to access and manipulate whatever datastreams and directions (in or out) Canon opted to put into their design. It's not necessarily a way to modify firmware, but to access data and variables not accessible from the external buttons. In fact, the external buttons issue digital commands to the firmware. The SDK will simply provide external access to these same command codes, as well as, possibly, more than just the external command "keys". It's all up to the designers. Whether the internal Xl2 processors can send commands, as well as receive them, is undefined, right now. The only "send" command I'm aware of is the command to RECORD sent out the firewire bus.

Sebastian Jacome · October 19th, 2004, 02:03 PM

Typically it will have multiple interfaces, that can be implemented in personal code to achieve specific configurations. I am sure it will an IO Interface that will allow the manipulation of the Input/Output Stream, like it was mentioned before. I was told by a Canon Rep that one of the interfaces will allow a granular adjustment of parameters that in the menu sets are setup to specific values (low, med, high).

One of the most interesting things, is the possibility of interaction between the data from optical input (usually manipulated by automated functions) and the configuration, maybe we will be able to create a piece of code that adjusts some parameter on real time based on data aquired from the optical input stream.

I think that's crazy, can't wait....

Adrian Evans · September 17th, 2006, 08:48 PM

I could be wrong, but from what I read before about Ipods, they don't even turn up on your computer as a Harddisk (you have to use Itunes). So even if you connected it to a laptop and used a editing program to capture it, you couldn't save it to your Ipod because it isn't recognised as a drive. Even if it does recognise it as a drive, why bother, just capture straight to the laptop.

So, yeah nice idea, but unless apple makes ANOTHER addon thing for their player, it won't work.

October 16th, 2004, 10:43 AM	#16
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	D'oh. Well, there you go, thanks Nick. Not much help to the XL2 crowd though. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 16th, 2004, 10:48 AM	#17
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	But does Sony put power over the cable or did they use the 6-pin connection for better handling and build quality? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 16th, 2004, 12:59 PM	#19
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	I thought we were discussing iPods not iPod minis. The minis do indeed use microdrives, but 4GB is impractical for DV, yielding only about 15 minutes of recording time. iPods have 40GB capacity with a 60 GB on the way. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 16th, 2004, 09:44 PM	#21
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	So there's an idea for somebody to tackle the XL2 SDK: write software for the XL2 so it can write a DV stream to any FW hard drive. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

October 17th, 2004, 10:10 AM	#23
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	I was under the impression that the SDK could modify the camera's firmware. Of course I might be wrong. There is also the other route: write code so the built-in processor in the iPod does the trick. I understand the iPod runs an OS developed by Sun Microsystems, and surely it already knows how to talk to the built in hard drive, so it might not require much work, should be able to work with a lot of cameras... I hope somebody tries it. Then again, the iPod is not exactly cheap. Would be really nice to be able to do such a thing with any FW hard drive. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

October 16th, 2004, 01:20 PM	#20
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Ah.... mea culpa!

October 17th, 2004, 09:27 AM	#22
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I thought that the SDK just provided a way for a computer program to "talk" to the XL-2. How could it be used to interface a "dumb" device like a disk drive?

October 18th, 2004, 10:25 AM	#24
Alfredo Castil Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 40	the software could be included on the FW drive if the firmware does not have enough storage to apply the SDK programs, the only modification on the xl2's firmware would be something like seek file X execute. Only an idea. __________________ Ask not whether you can afford to make it, but whether can you afford not to.

October 18th, 2004, 10:34 AM	#25
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The processor in the iPod is hardly fast enough to do the processing of a DV stream. I'm also pretty sure the OS is an Apple variant and not written by Sun Microsystems. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 18th, 2004, 10:39 AM	#26
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	SDK's, typically, describe how to access and use variable features built into the firmware of a device. In the case of the XL2, I think the SDK will describe how to access and manipulate whatever datastreams and directions (in or out) Canon opted to put into their design. It's not necessarily a way to modify firmware, but to access data and variables not accessible from the external buttons. In fact, the external buttons issue digital commands to the firmware. The SDK will simply provide external access to these same command codes, as well as, possibly, more than just the external command "keys". It's all up to the designers. Whether the internal Xl2 processors can send commands, as well as receive them, is undefined, right now. The only "send" command I'm aware of is the command to RECORD sent out the firewire bus.

October 19th, 2004, 02:03 PM	#27
Sebastian Jacome Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Quito - Ecuador Posts: 28	Typically it will have multiple interfaces, that can be implemented in personal code to achieve specific configurations. I am sure it will an IO Interface that will allow the manipulation of the Input/Output Stream, like it was mentioned before. I was told by a Canon Rep that one of the interfaces will allow a granular adjustment of parameters that in the menu sets are setup to specific values (low, med, high). One of the most interesting things, is the possibility of interaction between the data from optical input (usually manipulated by automated functions) and the configuration, maybe we will be able to create a piece of code that adjusts some parameter on real time based on data aquired from the optical input stream. I think that's crazy, can't wait....

September 17th, 2006, 08:48 PM	#28
Adrian Evans New Boot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 19	I could be wrong, but from what I read before about Ipods, they don't even turn up on your computer as a Harddisk (you have to use Itunes). So even if you connected it to a laptop and used a editing program to capture it, you couldn't save it to your Ipod because it isn't recognised as a drive. Even if it does recognise it as a drive, why bother, just capture straight to the laptop. So, yeah nice idea, but unless apple makes ANOTHER addon thing for their player, it won't work.