XL2 vs. DVX100A 24p 16:9 Cinegamma footage posted

Aaron Shaw · September 30th, 2004, 12:52 PM

Oh, no offense intended Ryan. I fully realize that the DVX is a marvelous camera and I'm a big Panasonic fan. I was honestly just curious (it wouldn't be the first time something like that had happened in history) because I don't know as much as I would like to.

Now that I have gone back and watched the video over again several times I can see what you mean. Maybe I'll go into Premiere and drop the midtones a bit and see how the footage looks...

Thanks for the reply :)

Aaron Shaw · September 30th, 2004, 02:00 PM

Well besides the fact that I have no skill encoding media...

I just went and lowered the midtones (and added a gamma adjustment to correct for the overly dark image it produced) and I am quite happy with the "filmic" look. It really took the video out of it (though perhaps it is a bit undersaturated now...)

Rob Lohman · October 1st, 2004, 03:36 AM

I've done a small test in Vegas with some filters. In my eye the
XL2 had a larger dynamic range than the DVX footage. I've only
run the final filters on the XL2 footage (just to see what could
be done with it).

www.visuar.com/DVi/xl2_24p.wmv
www.visuar.com/DVi/xl2_24p.veg
(Vegas 5 project file, you will need the original xl2_vs_dvx100a_24p.wmv file as well!)

I think I may have overdone it a bit, though... <g>

Robin Davies-Rollinson · October 1st, 2004, 07:14 AM

Rob,
Were those images shot at Hilversum?

Robin

Rob Lohman · October 1st, 2004, 08:03 AM

Not to my knowledge Robin. These pictures come from Ryan
(thread starter) and I doubt he shot these @ Hilversum. I just
changed some of his footage he put up in the first post.

Now you have to explain how you know about Hilversum <g>

Ryan Koo · October 1st, 2004, 03:24 PM

What's Hilversum?

Okay I brought home the XL2 for the weekend. I will do some more comparisons, a little more carefully this time. Any requests?

Antoine Fabi · October 1st, 2004, 09:10 PM

yep,

if you compare 16:9, then it would be very important to use the anamorphic adapter with the DVX100A.

thanks

Rob Lohman · October 3rd, 2004, 10:42 AM

Ryan: Hilversum is one of the local TV mekka's of Holland.
(it's the name of the town)

Mark Kubat · October 4th, 2004, 09:57 PM

the original footage shows this well - the second shot, with top of office building.

At Canon XL2 Canadian launch with "New York" footage, this was a big issue of contention with Canadian Videography VIPs in attendance from all over the country - why can't Canon deliver blue skies right out of the box?

The Panasonic GS400 even does does a better job with this - and the faux cineframe mode even looks better than Canon XL2's 24p.

To me, the pan shows more "strobing" or jitter on the XL2 24p than on the DVX, more akin to Canon's good ol' frame mode.

It's ironic, but increased sharpness makes the footage look more "video" than filmic.

I prefer the DVX footage - Rob Lohman shows that a lot can be done to rescue the XL2 footage in post-production with Vegas filters etc... certainly the same could be done to DVX footage to counter the argument about it having lesser dynamic range...

Ryan Koo · October 4th, 2004, 10:33 PM

Yeah, so... busy weekend, didn't even turn the XL2 on. Hopefully someone will publish a real, controlled comparison, but I'll still stand by my original thoughts... XL2's terrific if you're going to post-processing a lot, but doesn't look as good out of the box. Keep your DVX if you have one, if not, get an XL2 and a copy of Magic Bullet.

Gabriele Turchi · October 5th, 2004, 02:28 AM

To Mark

look the original clip posted by Ryan:
in the original clip there are much less strobe or jitter effect,
i think the jitter /strobe effect in the clip of Rob,it is cause of post prod in vegas!
And look theother clip in the forum:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=32674

the panning in 24p mode are very very good!

Best ragards

Gabriele

Robin Davies-Rollinson · October 5th, 2004, 02:42 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman :

Now you have to explain how you know about Hilversum <g> -->>>

Rob,
I had a TV series bought and shown by NOS a few years ago and attended the press launch at Hilversum.
Anyway, anyone working in broadcasting in Europe will know about Hilversum ;-)

Robin

Rob Lohman · October 5th, 2004, 04:11 AM

That's probably true Robin, nice you sold something!

Kevin Lepp · October 5th, 2004, 03:03 PM

I wish the dvx had the image res that the XL2 has-

Its weird, but I do see how the dvx has more of the "usual" film feel than the XL2 in motion and color --- IMHO. But I definitely wish that the dvx had the res that the xl2 has.

I just cant wait till technology gets to the point where the Canon, Panasonic and Sony prosumer cams are just as good as the Pro cams.- at ofcourse, the same prosumer price range.

well, thats my 2 cents.

Aaron Shaw · October 5th, 2004, 05:14 PM

I'm not sure that will ever happen ;)

After all Panasonic, Sony, and Canon still need to sell pro cams! If you mean "when they become as good as pro cams are now" then yes I suppose that is quite possible and would love to see it myself!

October 1st, 2004, 03:36 AM	#18
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I've done a small test in Vegas with some filters. In my eye the XL2 had a larger dynamic range than the DVX footage. I've only run the final filters on the XL2 footage (just to see what could be done with it). www.visuar.com/DVi/xl2_24p.wmv www.visuar.com/DVi/xl2_24p.veg (Vegas 5 project file, you will need the original xl2_vs_dvx100a_24p.wmv file as well!) I think I may have overdone it a bit, though... <g> __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 1st, 2004, 08:03 AM	#20
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Not to my knowledge Robin. These pictures come from Ryan (thread starter) and I doubt he shot these @ Hilversum. I just changed some of his footage he put up in the first post. Now you have to explain how you know about Hilversum <g> __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 3rd, 2004, 10:42 AM	#23
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Ryan: Hilversum is one of the local TV mekka's of Holland. (it's the name of the town) __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 4th, 2004, 09:57 PM	#24
Mark Kubat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 375	too bad Canon can't do blue skies the original footage shows this well - the second shot, with top of office building. At Canon XL2 Canadian launch with "New York" footage, this was a big issue of contention with Canadian Videography VIPs in attendance from all over the country - why can't Canon deliver blue skies right out of the box? The Panasonic GS400 even does does a better job with this - and the faux cineframe mode even looks better than Canon XL2's 24p. To me, the pan shows more "strobing" or jitter on the XL2 24p than on the DVX, more akin to Canon's good ol' frame mode. It's ironic, but increased sharpness makes the footage look more "video" than filmic. I prefer the DVX footage - Rob Lohman shows that a lot can be done to rescue the XL2 footage in post-production with Vegas filters etc... certainly the same could be done to DVX footage to counter the argument about it having lesser dynamic range...

October 5th, 2004, 04:11 AM	#28
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	That's probably true Robin, nice you sold something! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 30th, 2004, 12:52 PM	#16
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Oh, no offense intended Ryan. I fully realize that the DVX is a marvelous camera and I'm a big Panasonic fan. I was honestly just curious (it wouldn't be the first time something like that had happened in history) because I don't know as much as I would like to. Now that I have gone back and watched the video over again several times I can see what you mean. Maybe I'll go into Premiere and drop the midtones a bit and see how the footage looks... Thanks for the reply :)

September 30th, 2004, 02:00 PM	#17
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Well besides the fact that I have no skill encoding media... I just went and lowered the midtones (and added a gamma adjustment to correct for the overly dark image it produced) and I am quite happy with the "filmic" look. It really took the video out of it (though perhaps it is a bit undersaturated now...)

October 1st, 2004, 07:14 AM	#19
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Rob, Were those images shot at Hilversum? Robin

October 1st, 2004, 03:24 PM	#21
Ryan Koo Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 92	What's Hilversum? Okay I brought home the XL2 for the weekend. I will do some more comparisons, a little more carefully this time. Any requests?

October 1st, 2004, 09:10 PM	#22
Antoine Fabi Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: sherbrooke (Quebec) Canada Posts: 108	yep, if you compare 16:9, then it would be very important to use the anamorphic adapter with the DVX100A. thanks

October 4th, 2004, 10:33 PM	#25
Ryan Koo Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 92	Yeah, so... busy weekend, didn't even turn the XL2 on. Hopefully someone will publish a real, controlled comparison, but I'll still stand by my original thoughts... XL2's terrific if you're going to post-processing a lot, but doesn't look as good out of the box. Keep your DVX if you have one, if not, get an XL2 and a copy of Magic Bullet.

October 5th, 2004, 02:28 AM	#26
Gabriele Turchi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: New York City Posts: 56	To Mark look the original clip posted by Ryan: in the original clip there are much less strobe or jitter effect, i think the jitter /strobe effect in the clip of Rob,it is cause of post prod in vegas! And look theother clip in the forum: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=32674 the panning in 24p mode are very very good! Best ragards Gabriele

October 5th, 2004, 02:42 AM	#27
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Now you have to explain how you know about Hilversum <g> -->>> Rob, I had a TV series bought and shown by NOS a few years ago and attended the press launch at Hilversum. Anyway, anyone working in broadcasting in Europe will know about Hilversum ;-) Robin

October 5th, 2004, 03:03 PM	#29
Kevin Lepp Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 38	I wish the dvx had the image res that the XL2 has- Its weird, but I do see how the dvx has more of the "usual" film feel than the XL2 in motion and color --- IMHO. But I definitely wish that the dvx had the res that the xl2 has. I just cant wait till technology gets to the point where the Canon, Panasonic and Sony prosumer cams are just as good as the Pro cams.- at ofcourse, the same prosumer price range. well, thats my 2 cents. __________________ Kevin

October 5th, 2004, 05:14 PM	#30
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	I'm not sure that will ever happen ;) After all Panasonic, Sony, and Canon still need to sell pro cams! If you mean "when they become as good as pro cams are now" then yes I suppose that is quite possible and would love to see it myself!