Canon 3x wide angle lens

Kieran Clayton · December 26th, 2004, 11:47 AM

The best thing to do is to search uk web retailers to find the best price you can get it for and then go to Jessops and price match the online price. That way you get the best price but with a little more reliability in terms of customer service. Also as Jessops don't keep any of the 3x wideangles in stock they didn't seem to require that the online retailer has them in stock either to match the price. (I got mine down to £750)

They have to get them directly from Canon and it took about a month to arrive once I'd put the order in.

James Millne · December 26th, 2004, 06:30 PM

Good advice there Kieran. I wasn't aware that Jessops price match (more the fool me). I will keep that in mind for any future purchases.

Tom Blair · January 12th, 2005, 10:05 PM

Has anyone experienced problems with the focus on the wide angle lens?I zoomed into two people indoors at an amply lit table on a high shot.I manually focused, started rolling tape and pulled back while rolling only to see the couple get soft in the viewfinder which was only confirmed on playback.I also notice that the focus drifts easily and there's never a great affirmation that you are in focus or that it won't drift......very frustrating.-Tom

Andrew Oh · January 13th, 2005, 01:50 AM

Hey Tom, I'm getting my 3x lens sometime next week and I'll let you know if I experience the same thing. I postivie it's not your technical skills as your profile states that you are a staff cameraman at FOX. Maybe a bad batch? I'll keep you posted.

Andrew

Bruce S. Yarock · January 13th, 2005, 02:30 AM

When I first tried out my new 3x lens, I was also frustrated. I found the focus to be a bit soft in wide position. Since I'm still learning to use my xl2 in manual , I wasn't sure whether it was me or the lens. I posted about this problem, and the feedback I got was that this softness in full wide was typical of that kind of lens.
But the more I use it, the better I like it. Yesterday I shot the inside of a condo for some friends, and it was great. ( No way to get the wide shots in a tight space with the stock lens). I also did a shot for my motorcycle business, and sitting close on the ground, I got a nice dramatic shot of the bike thanks to the 3x.
I'd be happy to hear any other feedback.
Bruce yarock

Richard Hunter · January 13th, 2005, 06:23 AM

There is something on Chris Hurd's watchdog pages about a soft focus problem with Canon lenses set to small apertures (I think any number larger than f11). Not sure if this applies in this particular case, or even if it applies to the 3X lens at all, but the solution was to use an ND filter or faster shutter to open up the aperture.

Change of focus while zooming sounds more like a back focus problem though.

Chris Hurd · January 13th, 2005, 08:23 AM

Article referenced is at http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article19.php.

Most common issue with the 3x however is the Pxel Averaging phenomenon common to all wide fields of view in DV.

Barry Goyette · January 13th, 2005, 02:34 PM

Tom

I know of at least one other 3x lens (mine) that has this issue, and it is not the "pixel-averaging" phenomenon that Chris refers to...it is a backfocus issue (one I haven't taken the time to deal with). Another member contacted me and said that he had the problem and that canon was not able to fix it. I'm hoping that this isn't the case with mine (or yours).

you can see an example of my problem here:

http://homepage.mac.com/barrygoyette/FileSharing25.html

notice how I'm able to refocus the image after I zoom wide...this indicates that it is a backfocus issue, not the typical wide angle softness often seen on DV. Otherwise the 3x is extremely sharp...perhaps a little crisper (when focused) than the 20x at the same magnification.

Barry

Andrew Oh · January 13th, 2005, 05:38 PM

Also, in addition to Richard's comments, keep in mind the other extreme as well. Shooting wide open (f1.8) will yield softer results than if you were shooting stopped down, ie. to 5.6 etc. because of the shallower depth of field. Every lens has a sweet spot which yields maximun sharpness but in some of our cases, since we are trying to obtain the shallow DOF in our images, we would most likely be shooting wide open a lot of the time. If we are shooting wide open, or close to it, the focus has to be right on otherwise your subject will be slightly out of focus and thus soft since the point in focus will be narrow at 1.8. It may be a backfocus issue if you're using the autofocus switch to get your subject in focus. But in manual focus mode, it isn't a problem since you're using your eye to determine what's in focus or not (our viewfinders are a little small and it's hard to tell a lot of the time). This leads me to believe the lens may be soft wide open or suffers from the drift problem Tom stated. Also, don't rule out the fact that you may have a lens from a bad batch. In that case, I would have Canon or the store you bought if from replace the unit.

Andrew

Andrew Oh · January 13th, 2005, 05:47 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Goyette : Tom

I know of at least one other 3x lens (mine) that has this issue, and it is not the "pixel-averaging" phenomenon that Chris refers to...it is a backfocus issue (one I haven't taken the time to deal with). Another member contacted me and said that he had the problem and that canon was not able to fix it. I'm hoping that this isn't the case with mine (or yours).

you can see an example of my problem here:

http://homepage.mac.com/barrygoyette/FileSharing25.html

notice how I'm able to refocus the image after I zoom wide...this indicates that it is a backfocus issue, not the typical wide angle softness often seen on DV. Otherwise the 3x is extremely sharp...perhaps a little crisper (when focused) than the 20x at the same magnification.

Barry -->>>

Holy cow Barry, I just saw your vid and that's a nasty problem! They are definitely designed not to do that and I'd try to get my unit replaced. The zoom in, focus, zoom out technique is universal and your lens shouldn't be an exception. Your second zoom out seemed okay though. Any chance the focus ring was accidentally touched when you zoomed out on the first zoom?

Richard Alvarez · January 13th, 2005, 06:07 PM

If I understood the video example correctly, the second zoom out was performed on a 20x lens, not the 3x as a comparison

Barry Goyette · January 13th, 2005, 06:29 PM

correct..the second zoom was with the 20x...the origin of this clip was a comparison of the two lenses...then I realized I had a problem...I'll be contacting canon soon, and let you all know if there is a resolution.

Barry

Jim Sofranko · January 14th, 2005, 09:32 PM

I've been hearing tids and bits of this phenomenom with the 3x since the introduction of the XL2. It seems to be hit or miss as to whether one has the problem or not with a particular 3x lens. Is it a lens problem or is it a camera problem?

Does it mean that I should bring my 3x lens to the dealer to try various bodies to find one that is compatible?

Has anyone had any dealings with Canon regarding this problem? If so, what is the official Canon response??

A. J. deLange · January 15th, 2005, 07:33 AM

I checked the basic sharpness of he 3x lens and found it to be no less sharp than any of the others I've tested. The sharpness chart is at http://www.pbase.com/image/38413625. But does it have the zoom problem being discussed here? It certainly does! I'm not sure this is just a back focus problem (parallel incoming rays focus at a fixed distance from the back of the lens irrespective of focal length but that point isn't on the CCD plane). I think it's a design problem (rear focal point shifts as focal length of lens is adjusted). Does anyone have a 3x that doesn't exhibit this?

Scott Aston · January 15th, 2005, 09:44 AM

Hello all...got a question. I am about to purchase the XL2 and would like to incorporate a matte box along with the 3x wide angle lens. Has anyone used the 3x wide angle lens with a matte box. If so, which matte box? and how does it perform..any vignetting?

We are looking at the Chrozsiel 4X4, Cavision 4X4 and the Formatt FM-500 4X4. Does any one have any of these and what is your experience? Any vignetting when shooting in 16:9?

Thanks in advance

January 12th, 2005, 10:05 PM	#78
Tom Blair New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 8	sloppy focus on 3x lens? Has anyone experienced problems with the focus on the wide angle lens?I zoomed into two people indoors at an amply lit table on a high shot.I manually focused, started rolling tape and pulled back while rolling only to see the couple get soft in the viewfinder which was only confirmed on playback.I also notice that the focus drifts easily and there's never a great affirmation that you are in focus or that it won't drift......very frustrating.-Tom __________________ Harbor Images

January 13th, 2005, 08:23 AM	#82
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Article referenced is at http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article19.php. Most common issue with the 3x however is the Pxel Averaging phenomenon common to all wide fields of view in DV. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 15th, 2005, 09:44 AM	#90
Scott Aston Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 75	3X Lens & Matte Box Hello all...got a question. I am about to purchase the XL2 and would like to incorporate a matte box along with the 3x wide angle lens. Has anyone used the 3x wide angle lens with a matte box. If so, which matte box? and how does it perform..any vignetting? We are looking at the Chrozsiel 4X4, Cavision 4X4 and the Formatt FM-500 4X4. Does any one have any of these and what is your experience? Any vignetting when shooting in 16:9? Thanks in advance __________________ Scott Aston Eyecon Pictures, Inc.

December 26th, 2004, 11:47 AM	#76
Kieran Clayton Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: England Posts: 56	The best thing to do is to search uk web retailers to find the best price you can get it for and then go to Jessops and price match the online price. That way you get the best price but with a little more reliability in terms of customer service. Also as Jessops don't keep any of the 3x wideangles in stock they didn't seem to require that the online retailer has them in stock either to match the price. (I got mine down to £750) They have to get them directly from Canon and it took about a month to arrive once I'd put the order in.

December 26th, 2004, 06:30 PM	#77
James Millne Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newcastle, England Posts: 37	Good advice there Kieran. I wasn't aware that Jessops price match (more the fool me). I will keep that in mind for any future purchases.

January 13th, 2005, 01:50 AM	#79
Andrew Oh Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 86	Hey Tom, I'm getting my 3x lens sometime next week and I'll let you know if I experience the same thing. I postivie it's not your technical skills as your profile states that you are a staff cameraman at FOX. Maybe a bad batch? I'll keep you posted. Andrew

January 13th, 2005, 02:30 AM	#80
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	When I first tried out my new 3x lens, I was also frustrated. I found the focus to be a bit soft in wide position. Since I'm still learning to use my xl2 in manual , I wasn't sure whether it was me or the lens. I posted about this problem, and the feedback I got was that this softness in full wide was typical of that kind of lens. But the more I use it, the better I like it. Yesterday I shot the inside of a condo for some friends, and it was great. ( No way to get the wide shots in a tight space with the stock lens). I also did a shot for my motorcycle business, and sitting close on the ground, I got a nice dramatic shot of the bike thanks to the 3x. I'd be happy to hear any other feedback. Bruce yarock

January 13th, 2005, 06:23 AM	#81
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	There is something on Chris Hurd's watchdog pages about a soft focus problem with Canon lenses set to small apertures (I think any number larger than f11). Not sure if this applies in this particular case, or even if it applies to the 3X lens at all, but the solution was to use an ND filter or faster shutter to open up the aperture. Change of focus while zooming sounds more like a back focus problem though.

January 13th, 2005, 02:34 PM	#83
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	Tom I know of at least one other 3x lens (mine) that has this issue, and it is not the "pixel-averaging" phenomenon that Chris refers to...it is a backfocus issue (one I haven't taken the time to deal with). Another member contacted me and said that he had the problem and that canon was not able to fix it. I'm hoping that this isn't the case with mine (or yours). you can see an example of my problem here: http://homepage.mac.com/barrygoyette/FileSharing25.html notice how I'm able to refocus the image after I zoom wide...this indicates that it is a backfocus issue, not the typical wide angle softness often seen on DV. Otherwise the 3x is extremely sharp...perhaps a little crisper (when focused) than the 20x at the same magnification. Barry

January 13th, 2005, 05:38 PM	#84
Andrew Oh Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 86	Also, in addition to Richard's comments, keep in mind the other extreme as well. Shooting wide open (f1.8) will yield softer results than if you were shooting stopped down, ie. to 5.6 etc. because of the shallower depth of field. Every lens has a sweet spot which yields maximun sharpness but in some of our cases, since we are trying to obtain the shallow DOF in our images, we would most likely be shooting wide open a lot of the time. If we are shooting wide open, or close to it, the focus has to be right on otherwise your subject will be slightly out of focus and thus soft since the point in focus will be narrow at 1.8. It may be a backfocus issue if you're using the autofocus switch to get your subject in focus. But in manual focus mode, it isn't a problem since you're using your eye to determine what's in focus or not (our viewfinders are a little small and it's hard to tell a lot of the time). This leads me to believe the lens may be soft wide open or suffers from the drift problem Tom stated. Also, don't rule out the fact that you may have a lens from a bad batch. In that case, I would have Canon or the store you bought if from replace the unit. Andrew

January 13th, 2005, 05:47 PM	#85
Andrew Oh Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 86	<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Goyette : Tom I know of at least one other 3x lens (mine) that has this issue, and it is not the "pixel-averaging" phenomenon that Chris refers to...it is a backfocus issue (one I haven't taken the time to deal with). Another member contacted me and said that he had the problem and that canon was not able to fix it. I'm hoping that this isn't the case with mine (or yours). you can see an example of my problem here: http://homepage.mac.com/barrygoyette/FileSharing25.html notice how I'm able to refocus the image after I zoom wide...this indicates that it is a backfocus issue, not the typical wide angle softness often seen on DV. Otherwise the 3x is extremely sharp...perhaps a little crisper (when focused) than the 20x at the same magnification. Barry -->>> Holy cow Barry, I just saw your vid and that's a nasty problem! They are definitely designed not to do that and I'd try to get my unit replaced. The zoom in, focus, zoom out technique is universal and your lens shouldn't be an exception. Your second zoom out seemed okay though. Any chance the focus ring was accidentally touched when you zoomed out on the first zoom?

January 13th, 2005, 06:07 PM	#86
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	If I understood the video example correctly, the second zoom out was performed on a 20x lens, not the 3x as a comparison

January 13th, 2005, 06:29 PM	#87
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	correct..the second zoom was with the 20x...the origin of this clip was a comparison of the two lenses...then I realized I had a problem...I'll be contacting canon soon, and let you all know if there is a resolution. Barry

January 14th, 2005, 09:32 PM	#88
Jim Sofranko Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West Shokan, NY Posts: 217	I've been hearing tids and bits of this phenomenom with the 3x since the introduction of the XL2. It seems to be hit or miss as to whether one has the problem or not with a particular 3x lens. Is it a lens problem or is it a camera problem? Does it mean that I should bring my 3x lens to the dealer to try various bodies to find one that is compatible? Has anyone had any dealings with Canon regarding this problem? If so, what is the official Canon response??

January 15th, 2005, 07:33 AM	#89
A. J. deLange Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: McLean, VA United States Posts: 749	I checked the basic sharpness of he 3x lens and found it to be no less sharp than any of the others I've tested. The sharpness chart is at http://www.pbase.com/image/38413625. But does it have the zoom problem being discussed here? It certainly does! I'm not sure this is just a back focus problem (parallel incoming rays focus at a fixed distance from the back of the lens irrespective of focal length but that point isn't on the CCD plane). I think it's a design problem (rear focal point shifts as focal length of lens is adjusted). Does anyone have a 3x that doesn't exhibit this?