XL2 owners at DVinfo.net

John Wheeler · September 12th, 2004, 09:41 PM

When in 16:9 mode, and looking through the VF, do you notice the top part of the screen (the black part) flickering?

And also, what is an "S terminal" ?

It says in the manual that TV's with S (S1)-Terminals will automatically playback 16:9 footage in widescreen mode.

j.

Rand Michael · September 12th, 2004, 09:48 PM

no

Nick Hiltgen · September 13th, 2004, 12:59 AM

My guess is S-terminal =s-video

Kevin Chao · September 13th, 2004, 02:29 AM

i noticed the flicker too... it only occurs when the VF is adjusting to the change from 4:3 to 16:9 and vice versa...

Jay Gladwell · September 13th, 2004, 05:29 AM

I see no flicker.

Yes, it is s-video.

Jay

Lauri Kettunen · September 13th, 2004, 07:58 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by John Wheeler : When in 16:9 mode, and looking through the VF, do you notice the top part of the screen (the black part) flickering?

You mean you see in the top of the view finder some flickering? My guess, it that this simply means that the plastic framr of the VF do not cover the upmost lines of the image. If someone else does not see flickering, the plastic frames are in a slightly different position.

This is not harmful and, in fact, the question is of an effect which has to do with the TV-standard. Moreover, some pro-level viewfinders enable you to see the flickering all the time. So, without seeing what you mean, my guess is still that there is no reason to worry.

John Wheeler · September 13th, 2004, 08:37 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Lauri Kettunen : You mean you see in the top of the view finder some flickering? My guess, it that this simply means that the plastic framr of the VF do not cover the upmost lines of the image.

Think of watching footage in letterbox mode. Then look at the black that is above and below the image. The whole black area above the image, in the view finder, flickers. It's not like it's an area thats very close to the edge. It's the entire black area above the image.

<<<-- Originally posted by Nick Hiltgen: My guess is S-terminal =s-video

Are you positive it's s-video? ..Because the manual doesnt call it "s-video" ...and also, I tried hooking the camera through the s-video input on my tv, but it didnt "automatically display in 16:9" as the manual claimns. It still displayed stretched.

j.

Don Berube · September 13th, 2004, 09:01 AM

John Wheeler writes:
>>>>>>>>Are you positive it's s-video? ..Because the manual doesnt call it "s-video" ...and also, I tried hooking the camera through the s-video input on my tv, but it didnt "automatically display in 16:9" as the manual claimns. It still displayed stretched.

John,

That is because the XL2 is outputting real, anamorphic 16:9 which is meant to be resolved on a monitor capable of resolving anamorphic 16:9.

>>>>>>>>It says in the manual that TV's with S (S1)-Terminals will automatically playback 16:9 footage in widescreen mode.

The S-Video output terminal is in fact doing what is claimed in the manual - it is outputting 16:9 footage. You need to understand that it is meant to be resolved on a real 16:9 capable monitor. This is real 16:9, not simulated, electronically iterpolated 16:9 as found on some other cameras.

When capturing your XL2 16:9 footage with your favorite NLE, you would set your NLE preferences to "Anamorphic 16:9"

Good luck,

- don

Kevin Chao · September 13th, 2004, 12:50 PM

<<<Think of watching footage in letterbox mode. Then look at the black that is above and below the image. The whole black area above the image, in the view finder, flickers. It's not like it's an area thats very close to the edge. It's the entire black area above the image.>>>

about the flickering... it's nothing... it's on all the cameras... that guy probably doesn't see it... i know exactly what youre talking about... the black bar on the top is what flickers, and only does so when youre switching to and from 4:3 and 16:9 like i stated earlier...it's just the VF switching modes... nothing to worry about... the flickering isn't very noticable... maybe it's why that guy couldn't see it...

Paul Matwiy · September 14th, 2004, 06:38 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by John Wheeler : And also, what is an "S terminal" ?

It says in the manual that TV's with S (S1)-Terminals will automatically playback 16:9 footage in widescreen mode.
j. -->>>

John,

Some widescreen TVs have the ability to sense 16x9 material and automatically switch into 16x9 mode. Some 4x3 sets can do this as well by collapsing the raster to preserve vertical detail. This auto-sensing feature is not available on composite video inputs. I suspect it is looking for a flag in the vertical interval which is filtered out by the notch or comb filters found in most chroma decoders.

Paul

John Wheeler · September 14th, 2004, 08:22 AM

kevin,

Actually, the flicker is always there, when in 16:9 mode, not just when you switch. ....I kept it on for about 20 minutes, and it never stopped. I also saw some flicker around the (zoom indicator).

If other people see this, and agree that is it normal, then I don't mind. But I dont want to spend 5,000 and have a defective product.

So Paul, Are you saying that some 4:3 tv's may be able to display 16:9 footage in letterbox, straight from the camera via the s-video cable?

j.

Barry Goyette · September 14th, 2004, 09:02 AM

John

I'm not seeing any on mine...I switched through all the frame rate modes...nothing in any of them...I think you should call canon about it.

Barry

John Wheeler · September 14th, 2004, 11:21 AM

Just for the record, I talked to a guy from Canon. He was holding an XL2 in his hands, and he couldnt detect any "flicker" in the VF whatsoever. He said it shouldnt be doing that. So ..looks like im packing my camera up and shipping back to B&H.

j.

Matt McDermitt · September 14th, 2004, 11:34 AM

[expletive deleted] I just got it in the mail 10 min ago, I set everything up - turn it on and whats the first thing I notice? HMMMM... my viewfinders flickering thats annoying. Now I find that it may be a defect. I WAITED 10 DAYS FOR THIS TO COME IN THE MAIL!!! BAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

anyways does anyone think its worth shipping back? It is a 5k peice of equipment... if its not a definate defect I dont want to swap this camera with another that does the same thing.

John Wheeler · September 14th, 2004, 11:53 AM

Matt,

Thats my problem exactly. Is the flicker "normal" or not? ...the guy at Canon, could not see any sort of flicker. And a guy at B&H said "It shouldnt be doing that" ....But I have this feeling that I'm going to pack the camera up, wait another 2 or 3 weeks, get the new camera, and see the same thing. I wish a few more xl-2 owners would check their cameras for this issue and post the results.

j.

September 12th, 2004, 09:41 PM	#1
John Wheeler Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Antonio Texas Posts: 85	XL2 owners When in 16:9 mode, and looking through the VF, do you notice the top part of the screen (the black part) flickering? And also, what is an "S terminal" ? It says in the manual that TV's with S (S1)-Terminals will automatically playback 16:9 footage in widescreen mode. j.

September 13th, 2004, 07:58 AM	#6
Lauri Kettunen Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kangasala, Finland Posts: 445	Re: XL2 owners <<<-- Originally posted by John Wheeler : When in 16:9 mode, and looking through the VF, do you notice the top part of the screen (the black part) flickering? You mean you see in the top of the view finder some flickering? My guess, it that this simply means that the plastic framr of the VF do not cover the upmost lines of the image. If someone else does not see flickering, the plastic frames are in a slightly different position. This is not harmful and, in fact, the question is of an effect which has to do with the TV-standard. Moreover, some pro-level viewfinders enable you to see the flickering all the time. So, without seeing what you mean, my guess is still that there is no reason to worry.

September 13th, 2004, 09:01 AM	#8
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	John Wheeler writes: >>>>>>>>Are you positive it's s-video? ..Because the manual doesnt call it "s-video" ...and also, I tried hooking the camera through the s-video input on my tv, but it didnt "automatically display in 16:9" as the manual claimns. It still displayed stretched. John, That is because the XL2 is outputting real, anamorphic 16:9 which is meant to be resolved on a monitor capable of resolving anamorphic 16:9. >>>>>>>>It says in the manual that TV's with S (S1)-Terminals will automatically playback 16:9 footage in widescreen mode. The S-Video output terminal is in fact doing what is claimed in the manual - it is outputting 16:9 footage. You need to understand that it is meant to be resolved on a real 16:9 capable monitor. This is real 16:9, not simulated, electronically iterpolated 16:9 as found on some other cameras. When capturing your XL2 16:9 footage with your favorite NLE, you would set your NLE preferences to "Anamorphic 16:9" Good luck, - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

September 14th, 2004, 06:38 AM	#10
Paul Matwiy Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Marin, CA Posts: 85	Re: XL2 owners <<<-- Originally posted by John Wheeler : And also, what is an "S terminal" ? It says in the manual that TV's with S (S1)-Terminals will automatically playback 16:9 footage in widescreen mode. j. -->>> John, Some widescreen TVs have the ability to sense 16x9 material and automatically switch into 16x9 mode. Some 4x3 sets can do this as well by collapsing the raster to preserve vertical detail. This auto-sensing feature is not available on composite video inputs. I suspect it is looking for a flag in the vertical interval which is filtered out by the notch or comb filters found in most chroma decoders. Paul __________________ Paul

September 12th, 2004, 09:48 PM	#2
Rand Michael New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7	no

September 13th, 2004, 12:59 AM	#3
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	My guess is S-terminal =s-video

September 13th, 2004, 02:29 AM	#4
Kevin Chao Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: United States Posts: 37	i noticed the flicker too... it only occurs when the VF is adjusting to the change from 4:3 to 16:9 and vice versa...

September 13th, 2004, 05:29 AM	#5
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	I see no flicker. Yes, it is s-video. Jay

September 13th, 2004, 08:37 AM	#7
John Wheeler Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Antonio Texas Posts: 85	<<<-- Originally posted by Lauri Kettunen : You mean you see in the top of the view finder some flickering? My guess, it that this simply means that the plastic framr of the VF do not cover the upmost lines of the image. Think of watching footage in letterbox mode. Then look at the black that is above and below the image. The whole black area above the image, in the view finder, flickers. It's not like it's an area thats very close to the edge. It's the entire black area above the image. <<<-- Originally posted by Nick Hiltgen: My guess is S-terminal =s-video Are you positive it's s-video? ..Because the manual doesnt call it "s-video" ...and also, I tried hooking the camera through the s-video input on my tv, but it didnt "automatically display in 16:9" as the manual claimns. It still displayed stretched. j.

September 13th, 2004, 12:50 PM	#9
Kevin Chao Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: United States Posts: 37	<<<Think of watching footage in letterbox mode. Then look at the black that is above and below the image. The whole black area above the image, in the view finder, flickers. It's not like it's an area thats very close to the edge. It's the entire black area above the image.>>> about the flickering... it's nothing... it's on all the cameras... that guy probably doesn't see it... i know exactly what youre talking about... the black bar on the top is what flickers, and only does so when youre switching to and from 4:3 and 16:9 like i stated earlier...it's just the VF switching modes... nothing to worry about... the flickering isn't very noticable... maybe it's why that guy couldn't see it...

September 14th, 2004, 08:22 AM	#11
John Wheeler Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Antonio Texas Posts: 85	kevin, Actually, the flicker is always there, when in 16:9 mode, not just when you switch. ....I kept it on for about 20 minutes, and it never stopped. I also saw some flicker around the (zoom indicator). If other people see this, and agree that is it normal, then I don't mind. But I dont want to spend 5,000 and have a defective product. So Paul, Are you saying that some 4:3 tv's may be able to display 16:9 footage in letterbox, straight from the camera via the s-video cable? j.

September 14th, 2004, 09:02 AM	#12
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	John I'm not seeing any on mine...I switched through all the frame rate modes...nothing in any of them...I think you should call canon about it. Barry

September 14th, 2004, 11:21 AM	#13
John Wheeler Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Antonio Texas Posts: 85	Just for the record, I talked to a guy from Canon. He was holding an XL2 in his hands, and he couldnt detect any "flicker" in the VF whatsoever. He said it shouldnt be doing that. So ..looks like im packing my camera up and shipping back to B&H. j.

September 14th, 2004, 11:34 AM	#14
Matt McDermitt New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 21	[expletive deleted] I just got it in the mail 10 min ago, I set everything up - turn it on and whats the first thing I notice? HMMMM... my viewfinders flickering thats annoying. Now I find that it may be a defect. I WAITED 10 DAYS FOR THIS TO COME IN THE MAIL!!! BAHHHHHHHHHHHH! anyways does anyone think its worth shipping back? It is a 5k peice of equipment... if its not a definate defect I dont want to swap this camera with another that does the same thing.

September 14th, 2004, 11:53 AM	#15
John Wheeler Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Antonio Texas Posts: 85	Matt, Thats my problem exactly. Is the flicker "normal" or not? ...the guy at Canon, could not see any sort of flicker. And a guy at B&H said "It shouldnt be doing that" ....But I have this feeling that I'm going to pack the camera up, wait another 2 or 3 weeks, get the new camera, and see the same thing. I wish a few more xl-2 owners would check their cameras for this issue and post the results. j.