XL2 owners

Matt McDermitt · September 14th, 2004, 07:55 PM

okay It definately still flickers

"F" IT, IM KEEPIN IT

ill just pretend its supost too...

Barry Goyette · September 14th, 2004, 08:09 PM

Matt

I'd still try to schedule some time where you can send it into canon...it looks like there are more than just you out there with this problem, my guess is that they might just switch out the EVF completely (not that I know)...Join the XL club...the turn around on cameras is usually about 10 days...until then...have fun with it.

Barry

Don Berube · September 14th, 2004, 08:28 PM

Well, I currently have three XL2 cams here with me for ResFest 2004 and none of them are exhibiting the flickering which you are describing.

Matt, I just realized that you live in Andover, Massachusetts. That is not too far from where I am (Boston)
If you have the time this coming week to pay me a visit with your XL2, I'll take a personal look at your XL2.

On Thursday, September 16 - I will be in downtown Boston for the September BOSFCPUG meeting (http://www.bosfcpug.org) at the Billy Bordy Theatre at Emerson College on 216 Tremont Street in the first floor theatre. Stop by if you can, I will be there from 7pm - 10pm.

From September 17-18 I will be at the Brattle Theatre in Harvard Square for RESFEST Boston 2004 (resfest.com). Send me an email if you would like to stop by during this time.

I'll be in NYC for IFP beginning on September 19, so if you have the time to bop by with your XL2 before then, send me an email and let me know.

Best regards,

- don

Kevin Chao · September 14th, 2004, 09:01 PM

okay okay... here's the deal... i called canon also, and this is exactly what he said...."I can't see the flickering"... BUT... here's the good part... i live 15mins away from the canon service center, and imma bring it in tomorrow morning and have them take a look at it...

barry... as for the florecent theory, i was in a room with no light... not even daylight (i closed the blinds)... i'd figure the flickering will be harder to see in the daylight...

but for those non-believers...er non-see-er's?? here's the best way to see...

put it to 16:9 with the lense cap on (in a dark room preferrably)... you will still be able to see the letterbox bars... now tilt it to about 120degrees... you'll see the flickering... it's wasn't a big deal to me at first, i just thought it was like that... but now it's a f'n conspiricy... thank the thread starter guys... now i won't have my xl2 for a couple of days... jus playin...

p.s. how dope is the images yall getting from this piece... i've made my DVX fanboy friend a believer... and of course my sonyhead friend is still hatin on the XL2 though...

Don Berube · September 14th, 2004, 09:40 PM

Kevin Chao writes:
>>>>>>>>"put it to 16:9 with the lense cap on (in a dark room preferrably)... you will still be able to see the letterbox bars... now tilt it to about 120degrees... you'll see the flickering... "

Seriously now, this is the only time you can see the flickering? When the lens cap is on and you tilt it 120 degrees? Come on now, how is that a problem? I followed your steps and tried to invoke the flickering in the EVF's of all three of the XL2 cams I currently have in my possession - couldn't see any flickering at all. I feel like I have been had...

>>>>>>>>"it's wasn't a big deal to me at first, i just thought it was like that... but now it's a f'n conspiricy... thank the thread starter guys... "

Really now.

>>>>>>>>"now i won't have my xl2 for a couple of days... jus playin... "

"Jus playin..." ??? There is going to be a point when people will have to stop obsessing and trying to find problems with their new purchases and start to look at the positives and actually get out there and start shooting something interesting. It's time to start moving forward and create something, you know?

- don

John Wheeler · September 14th, 2004, 10:15 PM

Don,

Straight out of the box, brightly lit living room, lens cap off, turned the camera on, flipped it to 16:9 ..and looked through the VF ...the very first thing I saw/noticed was obvious strobbing/flickering in the VF, which does become more apparent when viewed at an angle. Now I don't know where other people come from, and it hasnt been proven yet whether it's a defect or not, but when I lay down $5,000, I dont care how small it is, if it's a defect, I'm going to be frustrated and concerned about how/if I can get it corrected.

j.

Greg Milneck · September 14th, 2004, 10:21 PM

mine has zero flicker....sounds like you need to return it and move on.

Don Berube · September 14th, 2004, 10:30 PM

John Wheeler writes:
>>>>>>>>"Straight out of the box, brightly lit living room, lens cap off, turned the camera on, flipped it to 16:9 ..and looked through the VF ...the very first thing I saw/noticed was obvious strobbing/flickering in the VF, which does become more apparent when viewed at an angle."

Hi John,

Of course, I can in no way corroborate that you do indeed have a tech issue, unless I see it in person - and that is not going to be possible since we live in opposite sides of the US. I do know that if I were able to personally look at your camera, I would be able to tell. My point is that it would seem the only way to determine if you have a problem is to let an authorized Canon technician look at it.

Best of luck,

- don

Ken Tanaka · September 14th, 2004, 10:38 PM

Ya know, I don't own an XL2. So take my remarks with care.

But after reading through this "fickerin' " issue it seems that it's quite possibly a psycho-perceptual issue. That is, just as some people see computer monitors flicker at certain refresh rates others do not. It looks like there's some degree of noticeability with regard to the whether the camera's in progressive or interlaced mode, and the frame rate setting.

I have noticed a faint flicker in my DVX100A's lcd when the camera's in 24P under certain lighting conditions (but not the viewfinder).

One somewhat non-scientific test to this theory is to have a few (alcoholic) drinks, wait 30-45 min and then see if you can still see "flickerin'". (Don't drink so much that you can't even see your feet.)

If nothing else, even if you still see it it won't be as bothersome. Of course you might now have focus complaints.

Greg Milneck · September 14th, 2004, 11:36 PM

damn, I took your advice....had 4 stiff drinks, waited 40 minutes and now my camera is a "fickerin' "

I'm going to ship it back 1st thing in the morning.

Ken Tanaka · September 15th, 2004, 12:01 AM

Yuh. I tried it myself an' now my durn XL1S is flickerin' ... an' it ain't even on.

Nick Hiltgen · September 15th, 2004, 02:01 AM

Ken your test doesn't work I had 5 drinks and I don't see anything... at all, in fact I'm typing this and I'm not sure I'm even hitting the right keys.

Your post was was hilarious, of course I really have been drinking so maybe in the mornign it'll be less funny.

Matt McDermitt · September 15th, 2004, 10:56 AM

Its a defect - I'm returning mine today - I called the store.

lata

Kevin Chao · September 15th, 2004, 01:34 PM

just got back from the CANON service center... at first the guy couldn't see it... of course i insisted that it's quite evident that it's there... upon closer observation... he saw it... he took it to the technician and compared with other xl2's and they all have the flicker... it's normal... don't sweat it thread starter... it's all to the good... for those that couldn't see it... yall probably didn't look hard enough... it's no big deal tho... this thread ends here...

Aaron Koolen · September 15th, 2004, 02:35 PM

Just cause it's "normal" doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. By that reasoning you could have taken your PD150 into the service centre stating that there is an audible hiss, and when tested against the other PD150's been told it's normal.. Would you have settled for it?

If it annoys the hell out of you then get one that doesn't have this as some seem to not be showing this problem.

Aaron

September 14th, 2004, 08:28 PM	#33
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Well, I currently have three XL2 cams here with me for ResFest 2004 and none of them are exhibiting the flickering which you are describing. Matt, I just realized that you live in Andover, Massachusetts. That is not too far from where I am (Boston) If you have the time this coming week to pay me a visit with your XL2, I'll take a personal look at your XL2. On Thursday, September 16 - I will be in downtown Boston for the September BOSFCPUG meeting (http://www.bosfcpug.org) at the Billy Bordy Theatre at Emerson College on 216 Tremont Street in the first floor theatre. Stop by if you can, I will be there from 7pm - 10pm. From September 17-18 I will be at the Brattle Theatre in Harvard Square for RESFEST Boston 2004 (resfest.com). Send me an email if you would like to stop by during this time. I'll be in NYC for IFP beginning on September 19, so if you have the time to bop by with your XL2 before then, send me an email and let me know. Best regards, - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

September 14th, 2004, 09:40 PM	#35
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Kevin Chao writes: >>>>>>>>"put it to 16:9 with the lense cap on (in a dark room preferrably)... you will still be able to see the letterbox bars... now tilt it to about 120degrees... you'll see the flickering... " Seriously now, this is the only time you can see the flickering? When the lens cap is on and you tilt it 120 degrees? Come on now, how is that a problem? I followed your steps and tried to invoke the flickering in the EVF's of all three of the XL2 cams I currently have in my possession - couldn't see any flickering at all. I feel like I have been had... >>>>>>>>"it's wasn't a big deal to me at first, i just thought it was like that... but now it's a f'n conspiricy... thank the thread starter guys... " Really now. >>>>>>>>"now i won't have my xl2 for a couple of days... jus playin... " "Jus playin..." ??? There is going to be a point when people will have to stop obsessing and trying to find problems with their new purchases and start to look at the positives and actually get out there and start shooting something interesting. It's time to start moving forward and create something, you know? - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

September 14th, 2004, 10:21 PM	#37
Greg Milneck Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 145	mine has zero flicker....sounds like you need to return it and move on. __________________ www.digitalfx.tv

September 14th, 2004, 10:30 PM	#38
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	John Wheeler writes: >>>>>>>>"Straight out of the box, brightly lit living room, lens cap off, turned the camera on, flipped it to 16:9 ..and looked through the VF ...the very first thing I saw/noticed was obvious strobbing/flickering in the VF, which does become more apparent when viewed at an angle." Hi John, Of course, I can in no way corroborate that you do indeed have a tech issue, unless I see it in person - and that is not going to be possible since we live in opposite sides of the US. I do know that if I were able to personally look at your camera, I would be able to tell. My point is that it would seem the only way to determine if you have a problem is to let an authorized Canon technician look at it. Best of luck, - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

September 14th, 2004, 10:38 PM	#39
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Ya know, I don't own an XL2. So take my remarks with care. But after reading through this "fickerin' " issue it seems that it's quite possibly a psycho-perceptual issue. That is, just as some people see computer monitors flicker at certain refresh rates others do not. It looks like there's some degree of noticeability with regard to the whether the camera's in progressive or interlaced mode, and the frame rate setting. I have noticed a faint flicker in my DVX100A's lcd when the camera's in 24P under certain lighting conditions (but not the viewfinder). One somewhat non-scientific test to this theory is to have a few (alcoholic) drinks, wait 30-45 min and then see if you can still see "flickerin'". (Don't drink so much that you can't even see your feet.) If nothing else, even if you still see it it won't be as bothersome. Of course you might now have focus complaints. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

September 14th, 2004, 07:55 PM	#31
Matt McDermitt New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 21	okay It definately still flickers "F" IT, IM KEEPIN IT ill just pretend its supost too...

September 14th, 2004, 08:09 PM	#32
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	Matt I'd still try to schedule some time where you can send it into canon...it looks like there are more than just you out there with this problem, my guess is that they might just switch out the EVF completely (not that I know)...Join the XL club...the turn around on cameras is usually about 10 days...until then...have fun with it. Barry

September 14th, 2004, 09:01 PM	#34
Kevin Chao Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: United States Posts: 37	okay okay... here's the deal... i called canon also, and this is exactly what he said...."I can't see the flickering"... BUT... here's the good part... i live 15mins away from the canon service center, and imma bring it in tomorrow morning and have them take a look at it... barry... as for the florecent theory, i was in a room with no light... not even daylight (i closed the blinds)... i'd figure the flickering will be harder to see in the daylight... but for those non-believers...er non-see-er's?? here's the best way to see... put it to 16:9 with the lense cap on (in a dark room preferrably)... you will still be able to see the letterbox bars... now tilt it to about 120degrees... you'll see the flickering... it's wasn't a big deal to me at first, i just thought it was like that... but now it's a f'n conspiricy... thank the thread starter guys... now i won't have my xl2 for a couple of days... jus playin... p.s. how dope is the images yall getting from this piece... i've made my DVX fanboy friend a believer... and of course my sonyhead friend is still hatin on the XL2 though...

September 14th, 2004, 10:15 PM	#36
John Wheeler Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Antonio Texas Posts: 85	Don, Straight out of the box, brightly lit living room, lens cap off, turned the camera on, flipped it to 16:9 ..and looked through the VF ...the very first thing I saw/noticed was obvious strobbing/flickering in the VF, which does become more apparent when viewed at an angle. Now I don't know where other people come from, and it hasnt been proven yet whether it's a defect or not, but when I lay down $5,000, I dont care how small it is, if it's a defect, I'm going to be frustrated and concerned about how/if I can get it corrected. j.

September 14th, 2004, 11:36 PM	#40
Greg Milneck Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 145	damn, I took your advice....had 4 stiff drinks, waited 40 minutes and now my camera is a "fickerin' " I'm going to ship it back 1st thing in the morning. __________________ www.digitalfx.tv

September 15th, 2004, 12:01 AM	#41
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Yuh. I tried it myself an' now my durn XL1S is flickerin' ... an' it ain't even on. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

September 15th, 2004, 02:01 AM	#42
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Ken your test doesn't work I had 5 drinks and I don't see anything... at all, in fact I'm typing this and I'm not sure I'm even hitting the right keys. Your post was was hilarious, of course I really have been drinking so maybe in the mornign it'll be less funny.

September 15th, 2004, 10:56 AM	#43
Matt McDermitt New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 21	Its a defect - I'm returning mine today - I called the store. lata

September 15th, 2004, 01:34 PM	#44
Kevin Chao Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: United States Posts: 37	just got back from the CANON service center... at first the guy couldn't see it... of course i insisted that it's quite evident that it's there... upon closer observation... he saw it... he took it to the technician and compared with other xl2's and they all have the flicker... it's normal... don't sweat it thread starter... it's all to the good... for those that couldn't see it... yall probably didn't look hard enough... it's no big deal tho... this thread ends here...

September 15th, 2004, 02:35 PM	#45
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Just cause it's "normal" doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. By that reasoning you could have taken your PD150 into the service centre stating that there is an audible hiss, and when tested against the other PD150's been told it's normal.. Would you have settled for it? If it annoys the hell out of you then get one that doesn't have this as some seem to not be showing this problem. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media