No 16:9 guidelines

Boyd Ostroff · July 13th, 2004, 01:23 PM

Rob, I think Holly is just talking about a simple 16:9 letterbox: "shrinking the width with locked ratio down to 720, keeping it centered hence letterboxing 4:3" . Or at least, that's what you would get if you lock the aspect ratio and set the width at 720, with a black bar above and below. And it's why I asked at earlier: "Would it be too radical to letterbox the 16:9?"

Yeah, you could call that downsampling, but it's generally just called letterboxing. If you edit in FCP all you need to do is create a 4:3 sequence and drop your 16:9 clip into it. But some applications (like the 6 o'clock news) will probably want fullscreen 4:3 and not letterboxed 16:9...

Rob Lohman · July 13th, 2004, 01:34 PM

I'm lost. I've been doing this XL2 thing for 13 hours straight now.
I hope Boyd understands what is going on <g> Letterboxing is
no problem indeed!

Russell Newquist · July 13th, 2004, 01:37 PM

Yeah, if you just wanted to letterbox it you'd be better off shooting in 16:9 mode and then shrinking it down. You'd have a higher resolution master to work with before putting out your finished product.

But you'd be better off keeping it just the way you filmed it (16:9) and distributing it as an animorphic DVD - assuming DVD is your target medium.

By cropping to 4:3, I (and I assume Rob, also) was referring to actually trimming the edges back off to get a fullscreen picture. If you're going to do that from an XL2 picture, you'd be better off shooting it 4:3 to begin with.

Rob Lohman · July 13th, 2004, 01:44 PM

That's what I meant indeed Russell.

Holly Miller · July 13th, 2004, 01:46 PM

Russell, Boyd, Rob: Thank you. The animorphic DVD would yes be the best option for that medium. For regular VHS the method I stated above seems most usefull, and for web 4:3 applications as well. If blowing up to film, then it's fine the way it was. So, for all applications still it seems the best way to shoot would be 16:9.

If you're shooting 16:9 for 4:3 all you'd really have to do is put the 16:9 clip into a 4:3 composition and then stretch it to it's normal 16:9 width.. putting the extra image information outside of the viewable 4:3 composition area. Makes the most sense to me because the actual hieght is the same for both ratios... correct?

Much like in Vegas with the pan and crop keyframing features. I've found those features usefull in the ability to keyframe the footage's vertical position.. to help stabilize and compose the images within an overlaying letterbox. Just in case it wasn't shot within the guides correctly in the first place.

So in this instance, you'd have left and right adjustability.

This of course, might be too much of a painfull process for some people.

Boyd Ostroff · July 13th, 2004, 04:04 PM

Hey Rob... GET SOME SLEEP! You guys have done a fantastic job here and have really put DVinfo on the bleeding edge this time. Thanks for all your efforts!

Yi Fong Yu · July 13th, 2004, 04:45 PM

i wonder if this means we can get REALLY REALLY crazy and go for 2.35 =).

Rob Lohman · July 14th, 2004, 02:58 AM

Boyd: and that's what I did, 5 hours later. A problem at work
reared its head. Oh well. Thanks!!

Charles Papert · July 14th, 2004, 04:09 AM

Well, I think that the 16:9 mode should offer guidelines for 1.85, for theatrical blowup. Even though it's only a slight difference, one is still chopping off a bit of information for that eventuality.

Rob Lohman · July 14th, 2004, 04:14 AM

Charles: that might be possible with the SDK (who knows yet).
When I return from my vacation I will see if I can take a look at
this. I know you would probably want an outline anyway
(dotted?) so it would be interesting to see if we could add such
a feature. I'll keep you posted on this.

July 13th, 2004, 01:34 PM	#17
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I'm lost. I've been doing this XL2 thing for 13 hours straight now. I hope Boyd understands what is going on <g> Letterboxing is no problem indeed! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 13th, 2004, 01:37 PM	#18
Russell Newquist Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 44	Yeah, if you just wanted to letterbox it you'd be better off shooting in 16:9 mode and then shrinking it down. You'd have a higher resolution master to work with before putting out your finished product. But you'd be better off keeping it just the way you filmed it (16:9) and distributing it as an animorphic DVD - assuming DVD is your target medium. By cropping to 4:3, I (and I assume Rob, also) was referring to actually trimming the edges back off to get a fullscreen picture. If you're going to do that from an XL2 picture, you'd be better off shooting it 4:3 to begin with. __________________ Russell Newquist http://www.russellnewquist.net/

July 13th, 2004, 01:44 PM	#19
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	That's what I meant indeed Russell. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 13th, 2004, 04:45 PM	#22
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	i wonder if this means we can get REALLY REALLY crazy and go for 2.35 =). __________________ bow wow wow

July 14th, 2004, 02:58 AM	#23
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Boyd: and that's what I did, 5 hours later. A problem at work reared its head. Oh well. Thanks!! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 13th, 2004, 01:23 PM	#16
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	Rob, I think Holly is just talking about a simple 16:9 letterbox: "shrinking the width with locked ratio down to 720, keeping it centered hence letterboxing 4:3" . Or at least, that's what you would get if you lock the aspect ratio and set the width at 720, with a black bar above and below. And it's why I asked at earlier: "Would it be too radical to letterbox the 16:9?" Yeah, you could call that downsampling, but it's generally just called letterboxing. If you edit in FCP all you need to do is create a 4:3 sequence and drop your 16:9 clip into it. But some applications (like the 6 o'clock news) will probably want fullscreen 4:3 and not letterboxed 16:9...

July 13th, 2004, 01:46 PM	#20
Holly Miller Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 56	Russell, Boyd, Rob: Thank you. The animorphic DVD would yes be the best option for that medium. For regular VHS the method I stated above seems most usefull, and for web 4:3 applications as well. If blowing up to film, then it's fine the way it was. So, for all applications still it seems the best way to shoot would be 16:9. If you're shooting 16:9 for 4:3 all you'd really have to do is put the 16:9 clip into a 4:3 composition and then stretch it to it's normal 16:9 width.. putting the extra image information outside of the viewable 4:3 composition area. Makes the most sense to me because the actual hieght is the same for both ratios... correct? Much like in Vegas with the pan and crop keyframing features. I've found those features usefull in the ability to keyframe the footage's vertical position.. to help stabilize and compose the images within an overlaying letterbox. Just in case it wasn't shot within the guides correctly in the first place. So in this instance, you'd have left and right adjustability. This of course, might be too much of a painfull process for some people.

July 13th, 2004, 04:04 PM	#21
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	Hey Rob... GET SOME SLEEP! You guys have done a fantastic job here and have really put DVinfo on the bleeding edge this time. Thanks for all your efforts!

July 14th, 2004, 04:09 AM	#24
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Well, I think that the 16:9 mode should offer guidelines for 1.85, for theatrical blowup. Even though it's only a slight difference, one is still chopping off a bit of information for that eventuality. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

July 14th, 2004, 04:14 AM	#25
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Charles: that might be possible with the SDK (who knows yet). When I return from my vacation I will see if I can take a look at this. I know you would probably want an outline anyway (dotted?) so it would be interesting to see if we could add such a feature. I'll keep you posted on this. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors