20x zoom lens -- various topics at DVinfo.net

Josh Brusin · July 13th, 2004, 08:27 AM

whats the skinny there? Also how much for body only (or will that be back burnered until sets sell). Selling in August, no?

Rob Lohman · July 13th, 2004, 08:37 AM

see the skinny here, yes, camera will sell in August.

Chris Hurd · July 13th, 2004, 08:37 AM

All yer questions (and more) are on the XL2 Watchdog site on the XL2 Skinny page. But go ahead and discuss what you found out, right here.

Wow, Rob, that was like a simultaneous post there! Pretty cool!

;-)

Rob Lohman · July 13th, 2004, 08:41 AM

According to the times it was EXACTLY at the same time... Guess
we are on XL2 sterious heh. Anyways, we both linked to a
different page. So go read Josh! <g>

Shawn McBee · August 26th, 2004, 01:18 AM

Just wondering if anyone has heard anything about whether or not Canon is planning on releasing a 20x manual for the XL2. I know it'd be nice not to have to wiegh your options between a 20x zoom or a manual with only 16x.

Marty Hudzik · August 26th, 2004, 02:39 AM

Canon keeps very tight lipped about stuff like this so I don't think anyone has heard anything. However if I were a beting man I would say don't expect anything like that for a while. This is just my opinion....I have no source at Canon. BUt logic says they can sell oodles of their current 16x manual lens as is so there is no real drive for them to produce a 20x version anytime soon.

Quick question for all:

The benefits of the manual lens are strictly for practical focusing and zooming reasons right? In other words assuming the 20x Fluorite lens and the manual are both in focus and have approximate same Fstop and zoom. Are the images comparable? JUst the manual lens gives the user absolute control whereas the servo lens doesn't?

In particular I am wondering if the DOF is more shallow on the manual lens or if this is about equal since the CCD size is the major factor for that.....

Rainer Hoffmann · August 26th, 2004, 04:27 AM

Marty,

the DOF depends only on the chip size, the f-stop and the focal length of the lens. The type of lens does not effect the DOF.

However, the 20x lens has a longer maximum focal lenght than the 16x lens. Therefore, if you use the max focal lenght of the 20x lens and the same f-stop, the DOF will be more shallow than the DOF of the 16x lens at max focal lenght. But of course you have a different Field of View because of the difference in focal length.

Hope this helps.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · August 26th, 2004, 06:14 AM

Quote:

The benefits of the manual lens are strictly for practical focusing and zooming reasons right?

Yes, these are the principals selling arguments. But on the Xl1, the manual lenses were definitly sharper than the stock 16X lens. The new 20X servo is supposed to be really sharp, so we will have to wait until true users experiences with both lens to answer this question.

Jim Giberti · August 26th, 2004, 09:44 AM

It looks like we'll be seeing the first Xl2s any day now, so we can put most speculation to rest. I've got a fulll package coming in spite of the fact that I've got a 14x lens and Mini35. For the money, it seems too good of a deal for a run and gun F series lens with that type of tele capabilty, OIS, NDs and programable functions.

One of the first things I'll do is an accurate test in the studio w/ hi res monitor to compare the 14 and 20 side by side.

Joel Guy · August 26th, 2004, 10:09 AM

Excellent! I want to hear about the results of that.

Richard Tuplin · September 7th, 2004, 01:51 PM

Hi Guys,
Please accept my apologies if this has been asked before, as I'm new to the discussion!

I'm thinking of purchasing a XL2 when they're released in the UK (I currently use a Canon XM2 with which I'm very impressed). However, I have a couple of questions which you might be able to provide the answers to for me.

1) for you guys in the US who already have the XL2 (lucky people!) I gather it has a 16 stage zoom speed with the supplied 20x lens. What's your thoughts on this - does it work well and is it easy to handle? I mainly film railway activity so need a camera that can zoom out quick to follow a train at 125 miles per hour, whilst also being able to zoom slowly to follow one doing 25mph!

2) Whilst I would buy the kit complete with the 20x lens, I do a reasonable amount of workshop filming where were in tight environments. Hence I'm thinking about purchasing the 3x wide angle zoom as well. If I did this would the lens still have the 16 stage zoom? (I appreciate the difference in telephoto lengths.) Also is the 3x wide angle significantly wider than the 20x on its widest (i.e. no zoom) setting?

3) Finally, am I right in assuming the XL2 has a LANC control socket on it, which can be used with the Manfrotto zoom control? I seem to think i've read this in the spec somewhere, but can't find it now!

Thanks for your help, in advance, and I hope I've posted this in the right place!!

Cheers
Richard

Pete Bauer · September 7th, 2004, 05:21 PM

Richard,

I just upgraded from the GL2 to the XL2. Apologies that I'm an amateur who has had the XL2 too short a time to answer all your questions fully and accurately, but here's my best:

The 16 stage zoom is awesome! The slowest speed is so slow that I'd call it "subtle" while the fastest speed is snappy -- comparable to full throttle on a GL2's 20x zoom. Further, with the zoom control set to "constant," one may change the zoom stage on the fly; as the zoom speed is changed, the zoom number briefly flashes in the viewfinder.

As often noted, the wide end of the 20x isn't terribly wide, so a 3x might be called for if tight shots are part of your shooting style. Alternatively, I believe I've read a post in which someone intended to use a wide adaptor on the 20x, review pending. I just haven't shot enough with it yet to really get a sense for how limiting the wide end might be.

I don't know about the zoom stage feature with a 3x. That control is on the camera body, so my GUESS would be that the camera body sends a signal regarding zoom speed to the lens, and the lens just does what it is told. In that case, it should work with the 3x. But, again, that is totally conjecture on my part; it is possible that special circuitry is built into the new 20x lens to allow for this, whereas the older 3x might not have it.

Yes, it does have an industry-standard LANC socket. It is located right below the Firewire terminal on the back spine of the handle.

Not tempted by the announcement of that Sony HDV cam? ;-)

Barry Goyette · September 7th, 2004, 09:10 PM

Richard, see my post under "xl2 first impressions" for more...but here's what I found. 3x lens appears to have all zoom speeds...certainly the slowest one works... Yes the 3x zoom is significantly wider than the 20x, I think its strength is in tight situations...You will find the 20x limiting in small areas.Be careful using the 3x in autofocus mode...I find it loses focus during zooms quite badly when in autofocus...stick it on manual and you shouldn't need to adjust focus in most wide situations anyway.

Barry

Aaron Koolen · September 7th, 2004, 11:38 PM

Could someone enlighten me to how this switch/button works on the Xl2's new lens? I'm interested to find out if it's a two state setting? i.e. Can you pop to the preset setting and then hit it again and pop back to the original, or does it just go to one place?

Cheers
Aaron

Chris Hurd · September 7th, 2004, 11:44 PM

It's a one-shot deal, it doesn't work "in reverse" back to where you started from. However as long as you don't change it, it's always in there. The particular focal length or focal plane is retained in memory until you reset it.

July 13th, 2004, 08:27 AM	#1
Josh Brusin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 439	20x zoom lens -- various topics whats the skinny there? Also how much for body only (or will that be back burnered until sets sell). Selling in August, no?

July 13th, 2004, 08:37 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	see the skinny here, yes, camera will sell in August. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 13th, 2004, 08:37 AM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	All yer questions (and more) are on the XL2 Watchdog site on the XL2 Skinny page. But go ahead and discuss what you found out, right here. Wow, Rob, that was like a simultaneous post there! Pretty cool! ;-) __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 13th, 2004, 08:41 AM	#4
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	According to the times it was EXACTLY at the same time... Guess we are on XL2 sterious heh. Anyways, we both linked to a different page. So go read Josh! <g> __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 26th, 2004, 01:18 AM	#5
Shawn McBee Regular Crew Join Date: May 2002 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 69	20x manual lens? Just wondering if anyone has heard anything about whether or not Canon is planning on releasing a 20x manual for the XL2. I know it'd be nice not to have to wiegh your options between a 20x zoom or a manual with only 16x. __________________ "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." -Mark Twain

August 26th, 2004, 02:39 AM	#6
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Canon keeps very tight lipped about stuff like this so I don't think anyone has heard anything. However if I were a beting man I would say don't expect anything like that for a while. This is just my opinion....I have no source at Canon. BUt logic says they can sell oodles of their current 16x manual lens as is so there is no real drive for them to produce a 20x version anytime soon. Quick question for all: The benefits of the manual lens are strictly for practical focusing and zooming reasons right? In other words assuming the 20x Fluorite lens and the manual are both in focus and have approximate same Fstop and zoom. Are the images comparable? JUst the manual lens gives the user absolute control whereas the servo lens doesn't? In particular I am wondering if the DOF is more shallow on the manual lens or if this is about equal since the CCD size is the major factor for that.....

August 26th, 2004, 04:27 AM	#7
Rainer Hoffmann Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Syke, Germany Posts: 249	Marty, the DOF depends only on the chip size, the f-stop and the focal length of the lens. The type of lens does not effect the DOF. However, the 20x lens has a longer maximum focal lenght than the 16x lens. Therefore, if you use the max focal lenght of the 20x lens and the same f-stop, the DOF will be more shallow than the DOF of the 16x lens at max focal lenght. But of course you have a different Field of View because of the difference in focal length. Hope this helps. __________________ Keep rolling Rainer

August 26th, 2004, 09:44 AM	#9
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	It looks like we'll be seeing the first Xl2s any day now, so we can put most speculation to rest. I've got a fulll package coming in spite of the fact that I've got a 14x lens and Mini35. For the money, it seems too good of a deal for a run and gun F series lens with that type of tele capabilty, OIS, NDs and programable functions. One of the first things I'll do is an accurate test in the studio w/ hi res monitor to compare the 14 and 20 side by side.

August 26th, 2004, 10:09 AM	#10
Joel Guy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NYC, NY Posts: 151	Excellent! I want to hear about the results of that.

September 7th, 2004, 01:51 PM	#11
Richard Tuplin New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: UK Posts: 7	XL2 with 3x and 20x lens Hi Guys, Please accept my apologies if this has been asked before, as I'm new to the discussion! I'm thinking of purchasing a XL2 when they're released in the UK (I currently use a Canon XM2 with which I'm very impressed). However, I have a couple of questions which you might be able to provide the answers to for me. 1) for you guys in the US who already have the XL2 (lucky people!) I gather it has a 16 stage zoom speed with the supplied 20x lens. What's your thoughts on this - does it work well and is it easy to handle? I mainly film railway activity so need a camera that can zoom out quick to follow a train at 125 miles per hour, whilst also being able to zoom slowly to follow one doing 25mph! 2) Whilst I would buy the kit complete with the 20x lens, I do a reasonable amount of workshop filming where were in tight environments. Hence I'm thinking about purchasing the 3x wide angle zoom as well. If I did this would the lens still have the 16 stage zoom? (I appreciate the difference in telephoto lengths.) Also is the 3x wide angle significantly wider than the 20x on its widest (i.e. no zoom) setting? 3) Finally, am I right in assuming the XL2 has a LANC control socket on it, which can be used with the Manfrotto zoom control? I seem to think i've read this in the spec somewhere, but can't find it now! Thanks for your help, in advance, and I hope I've posted this in the right place!! Cheers Richard

September 7th, 2004, 05:21 PM	#12
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Richard, I just upgraded from the GL2 to the XL2. Apologies that I'm an amateur who has had the XL2 too short a time to answer all your questions fully and accurately, but here's my best: The 16 stage zoom is awesome! The slowest speed is so slow that I'd call it "subtle" while the fastest speed is snappy -- comparable to full throttle on a GL2's 20x zoom. Further, with the zoom control set to "constant," one may change the zoom stage on the fly; as the zoom speed is changed, the zoom number briefly flashes in the viewfinder. As often noted, the wide end of the 20x isn't terribly wide, so a 3x might be called for if tight shots are part of your shooting style. Alternatively, I believe I've read a post in which someone intended to use a wide adaptor on the 20x, review pending. I just haven't shot enough with it yet to really get a sense for how limiting the wide end might be. I don't know about the zoom stage feature with a 3x. That control is on the camera body, so my GUESS would be that the camera body sends a signal regarding zoom speed to the lens, and the lens just does what it is told. In that case, it should work with the 3x. But, again, that is totally conjecture on my part; it is possible that special circuitry is built into the new 20x lens to allow for this, whereas the older 3x might not have it. Yes, it does have an industry-standard LANC socket. It is located right below the Firewire terminal on the back spine of the handle. Not tempted by the announcement of that Sony HDV cam? ;-) __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

September 7th, 2004, 09:10 PM	#13
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	Richard, see my post under "xl2 first impressions" for more...but here's what I found. 3x lens appears to have all zoom speeds...certainly the slowest one works... Yes the 3x zoom is significantly wider than the 20x, I think its strength is in tight situations...You will find the 20x limiting in small areas.Be careful using the 3x in autofocus mode...I find it loses focus during zooms quite badly when in autofocus...stick it on manual and you shouldn't need to adjust focus in most wide situations anyway. Barry

September 7th, 2004, 11:38 PM	#14
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	How does the 20x lens preset feature work? Could someone enlighten me to how this switch/button works on the Xl2's new lens? I'm interested to find out if it's a two state setting? i.e. Can you pop to the preset setting and then hit it again and pop back to the original, or does it just go to one place? Cheers Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

September 7th, 2004, 11:44 PM	#15
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	It's a one-shot deal, it doesn't work "in reverse" back to where you started from. However as long as you don't change it, it's always in there. The particular focal length or focal plane is retained in memory until you reset it. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!