24p to digibeta HELP!!! at DVinfo.net

Jonathan Grant · June 19th, 2008, 06:02 PM

I made a movie using the XL2 in 24p and now I have to put it to DigiBeta from the avi

The production house said that you couldn't do it because it has to be 30 frames to convert to DigiBeta. He said the only thing you can do with 24 frames is go to film. ???

This can't be right can it??? I mean, it's 24p that is actually 29.97 but plays like 24 frames or something like that right?

If it can be done, what should I tell him so he knows what to do? Can he just do it like he would a normal 30 frame video?

Ryan Mueller · June 19th, 2008, 08:41 PM

Hey Jonathan,

What he told you about only going to film is completely untrue!
The way you go about doing this depends on the format that the AVI is currently in. Is it 29.97, or is it actually a 24p AVI? Was it shot in 24Pa(2332) or regular 24P(2323)?

Jonathan Grant · June 19th, 2008, 10:04 PM

It's 2332 I know that. I think it's a 24p avi but I'm not sure. How can I check?

Thanks so much for your help! You are a lifesaver!!!

Ryan Mueller · June 19th, 2008, 10:33 PM

Being an AVI, I'm assuming that your on a Windows machine? If you have Quicktime on your machine, you can just select "show movie inspector" under "window". It's been so long since I touched a Windows machine that I can't help you with any other method, sorry bout that.

Just for future reference, don't shoot 2332 (24Pa) unless your intentions are to go to film. If you are planning on going to DVD or broadcast, shoot 2323.

If the footage was never reverse telecined then the movie should still be 29.97. If it is actually 24P, then the easiest way that I can think to convert it to 29.97 for broadcast is to drop the AVI into a 24fps timeline, then print the timeline to miniDV tape. It will do the 29.97 conversion for you as well as interlace the footage. Then just hand them the miniDV tape and you should be good to go.

I have never tried this with 2332 footage, but I imagine that it should work. I just converted a 23.97 (2323 reverse telecined) timeline to miniDV for broadcast conversion and it worked perfect.

Hope this helps!
Ryan

Jonathan Grant · June 19th, 2008, 11:22 PM

Hmmm...I would think it would actually be 29.97 since I've never ever heard of anything called reverse telecine. lol

So, if it is 29.97 it should go to the digibeta just like normal and I shouldn't have to do anything?

Ryan Mueller · June 20th, 2008, 08:34 AM

Correct! If your did your editing in a 24P timeline (and exported 24fps) you would notice some stuttering in the video, and you would be able to tell that something just wasn't right with the video since the 2332 cadence was never removed (reverse telecined).

If you did all of your editing in a 29.97 timeline (and exported 29.97) then the clip should convert to DigiBeta without a problem.

Keep me posted on what you find out, and if you run into any problems I'll try to help you out.

Jonathan Grant · June 20th, 2008, 01:48 PM

I did it in a 24p timeline in adobe premiere and exported it as 24p. When I play it in Windows media player it flutters, but when I play the avi in a dvd playing software (that also plays media files) it plays fine.

What if I export it as a 29.97 from the 24p timeline?

Ryan Mueller · June 20th, 2008, 04:19 PM

If you still have the original timeline that you edited the movie in, copy the entire timeline and paste it into a 29.97 timeline. Then just export that timeline and you should be good. I don't think that the footage will withstand simply converting a 24P to 29.97, though I could be wrong.

Jonathan Grant · June 21st, 2008, 12:53 AM

I imported the 23.98 footage into the 29.97 timeline and exported it as a 29.97 file. But when it imports it duplicates a frame and looks terrible (stuttery).

What happens if they just exported the 23.98 to digibeta?

Ryan Mueller · June 21st, 2008, 07:31 AM

Hmmm.... I'm at a loss. If what is going on is what I think is going on, then the conversion from 23.98 to digibeta should work. There is only one way to find out I guess. Sorry that I don't have the answers for you up front, but I have never worked with 24Pa (2332) footage before. I have worked in great depth however with 24P (2323) footage.

Here is what I'm thinking: You need to find a software that will telecine the footage for you and add a 3:2 cadence (JES Deinterlacer will work). After the footage has been telecined, you should then be able to drop the footage directly into a 29.97 timeline for export without duplicate frames and stuttering video.

Jonathan Grant · June 21st, 2008, 01:03 PM

So, my movie is in an avi file that is 23.98 now. But, it's possible to add a 2332 pulldown to it so it can be played as 29.97 right? Several have suggested exporting to miniDV tape and recapturing it as 29.97 to add a fresh pulldown. Is this step necessary? If exporting it to tape adds the pulldown couldn't I just export straight to digibeta?

Ryan Mueller · June 21st, 2008, 01:10 PM

Yes, it is definitely possible. Sorry about recommending JES Deinterlacer, I forgot that it is Mac only. I am not extremely familiar with digibeta specs, but I imagine that the process would be very similar to MiniDV? I know that it will add the pulldown to MiniDV, but as far as Digibeta... I couldn't tell you for sure.

Jonathan Grant · June 21st, 2008, 11:19 PM

Okay, after extensive research and watching paid tutorials I have a great answer to my question. Surely there are others who will have this same question and hopefully they'll find this thread through google. So here's the answer.

Adobe Premiere is different. The 24p timeline it has is actually "Panasonic 24p" so it is actually a 24pa timeline!!! All my footage and the avi file is already perfect for export. It's in 29.97 because the pull-down is kept on it, even though it is removed in the timeline.

And even if it isn't, you can add the pull-down very easily in adobe after effects. All you have to do is add the pull-down in the render queue settings. Lynda.com has a section of tutorial videos about how to do that in after effects.

So, basically, what I did is the best way I could have done it. Whew! :) Thanks everyone for your help!

June 19th, 2008, 06:02 PM	#1
Jonathan Grant Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: norman, OK Posts: 111	24p to digibeta HELP!!! I made a movie using the XL2 in 24p and now I have to put it to DigiBeta from the avi The production house said that you couldn't do it because it has to be 30 frames to convert to DigiBeta. He said the only thing you can do with 24 frames is go to film. ??? This can't be right can it??? I mean, it's 24p that is actually 29.97 but plays like 24 frames or something like that right? If it can be done, what should I tell him so he knows what to do? Can he just do it like he would a normal 30 frame video?

June 19th, 2008, 08:41 PM	#2
Ryan Mueller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Posts: 336	Hey Jonathan, What he told you about only going to film is completely untrue! The way you go about doing this depends on the format that the AVI is currently in. Is it 29.97, or is it actually a 24p AVI? Was it shot in 24Pa(2332) or regular 24P(2323)?

June 19th, 2008, 10:04 PM	#3
Jonathan Grant Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: norman, OK Posts: 111	It's 2332 I know that. I think it's a 24p avi but I'm not sure. How can I check? Thanks so much for your help! You are a lifesaver!!!

June 19th, 2008, 10:33 PM	#4
Ryan Mueller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Posts: 336	Being an AVI, I'm assuming that your on a Windows machine? If you have Quicktime on your machine, you can just select "show movie inspector" under "window". It's been so long since I touched a Windows machine that I can't help you with any other method, sorry bout that. Just for future reference, don't shoot 2332 (24Pa) unless your intentions are to go to film. If you are planning on going to DVD or broadcast, shoot 2323. If the footage was never reverse telecined then the movie should still be 29.97. If it is actually 24P, then the easiest way that I can think to convert it to 29.97 for broadcast is to drop the AVI into a 24fps timeline, then print the timeline to miniDV tape. It will do the 29.97 conversion for you as well as interlace the footage. Then just hand them the miniDV tape and you should be good to go. I have never tried this with 2332 footage, but I imagine that it should work. I just converted a 23.97 (2323 reverse telecined) timeline to miniDV for broadcast conversion and it worked perfect. Hope this helps! Ryan

June 19th, 2008, 11:22 PM	#5
Jonathan Grant Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: norman, OK Posts: 111	Hmmm...I would think it would actually be 29.97 since I've never ever heard of anything called reverse telecine. lol So, if it is 29.97 it should go to the digibeta just like normal and I shouldn't have to do anything?

June 20th, 2008, 08:34 AM	#6
Ryan Mueller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Posts: 336	Correct! If your did your editing in a 24P timeline (and exported 24fps) you would notice some stuttering in the video, and you would be able to tell that something just wasn't right with the video since the 2332 cadence was never removed (reverse telecined). If you did all of your editing in a 29.97 timeline (and exported 29.97) then the clip should convert to DigiBeta without a problem. Keep me posted on what you find out, and if you run into any problems I'll try to help you out.

June 20th, 2008, 01:48 PM	#7
Jonathan Grant Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: norman, OK Posts: 111	I did it in a 24p timeline in adobe premiere and exported it as 24p. When I play it in Windows media player it flutters, but when I play the avi in a dvd playing software (that also plays media files) it plays fine. What if I export it as a 29.97 from the 24p timeline?

June 20th, 2008, 04:19 PM	#8
Ryan Mueller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Posts: 336	If you still have the original timeline that you edited the movie in, copy the entire timeline and paste it into a 29.97 timeline. Then just export that timeline and you should be good. I don't think that the footage will withstand simply converting a 24P to 29.97, though I could be wrong.

June 21st, 2008, 12:53 AM	#9
Jonathan Grant Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: norman, OK Posts: 111	I imported the 23.98 footage into the 29.97 timeline and exported it as a 29.97 file. But when it imports it duplicates a frame and looks terrible (stuttery). What happens if they just exported the 23.98 to digibeta?

June 21st, 2008, 07:31 AM	#10
Ryan Mueller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Posts: 336	Hmmm.... I'm at a loss. If what is going on is what I think is going on, then the conversion from 23.98 to digibeta should work. There is only one way to find out I guess. Sorry that I don't have the answers for you up front, but I have never worked with 24Pa (2332) footage before. I have worked in great depth however with 24P (2323) footage. Here is what I'm thinking: You need to find a software that will telecine the footage for you and add a 3:2 cadence (JES Deinterlacer will work). After the footage has been telecined, you should then be able to drop the footage directly into a 29.97 timeline for export without duplicate frames and stuttering video.

June 21st, 2008, 01:03 PM	#11
Jonathan Grant Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: norman, OK Posts: 111	So, my movie is in an avi file that is 23.98 now. But, it's possible to add a 2332 pulldown to it so it can be played as 29.97 right? Several have suggested exporting to miniDV tape and recapturing it as 29.97 to add a fresh pulldown. Is this step necessary? If exporting it to tape adds the pulldown couldn't I just export straight to digibeta?

June 21st, 2008, 01:10 PM	#12
Ryan Mueller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Posts: 336	Yes, it is definitely possible. Sorry about recommending JES Deinterlacer, I forgot that it is Mac only. I am not extremely familiar with digibeta specs, but I imagine that the process would be very similar to MiniDV? I know that it will add the pulldown to MiniDV, but as far as Digibeta... I couldn't tell you for sure.

June 21st, 2008, 11:19 PM	#13
Jonathan Grant Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: norman, OK Posts: 111	Okay, after extensive research and watching paid tutorials I have a great answer to my question. Surely there are others who will have this same question and hopefully they'll find this thread through google. So here's the answer. Adobe Premiere is different. The 24p timeline it has is actually "Panasonic 24p" so it is actually a 24pa timeline!!! All my footage and the avi file is already perfect for export. It's in 29.97 because the pull-down is kept on it, even though it is removed in the timeline. And even if it isn't, you can add the pull-down very easily in adobe after effects. All you have to do is add the pull-down in the render queue settings. Lynda.com has a section of tutorial videos about how to do that in after effects. So, basically, what I did is the best way I could have done it. Whew! :) Thanks everyone for your help!