Bottom line flickers! It's driving me crazy at DVinfo.net

Josh Green · May 2nd, 2007, 12:24 PM

Hi all, I've got an issue that if resolved would increase my happiness greatly. I have an XHA1 using Final Cut Pro and Compressor. Everytime I burn my footage to DVD (using DVDSP) and play it back on a normal TV the bottom line of the video flickers. My videos are shot in 16:9 so the bottom line of the video is visible. It's not too bad so I doubt if my clients really care, but it annoys the hell out of me! Here's my workflow thus far:

1. apply deinterlace filter in FCP to all video
2. render and export as mov dv ntsc
3. use compressor to make m2v files (best DVD setting 4:3, 90 min)
4. burn disc with DVDSP

I've also tried, deinterlacing in compressor, changing the upper and odd things for the deinterlacing methods in final cut and compressor

Any help would be fantastic, because I'm so new at all this, and I don't know anyone that knows anything about this stuff. Thanks.

Stefan Scherperel · May 2nd, 2007, 01:59 PM

Why are you deinterlacing? That most likely is your problem right there. If you want progressive scan, shoot progressive scan, if you want interlaced shoot interlaced.

Josh Green · May 2nd, 2007, 02:34 PM

If I don't deinterlace, the video is way to stroby, and my camera won't shoot true progressive video or I would be all over it. My videos are almost entirely slow mo too, not sure if that makes a difference but I think it does.

David W. Jones · May 2nd, 2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Green

If I don't deinterlace, the video is way to stroby, and my camera won't shoot true progressive video or I would be all over it. My videos are almost entirely slow mo too, not sure if that makes a difference but I think it does.

The XH-A1 will shoot true progressive!

Gert Kracht · May 2nd, 2007, 05:25 PM

Did you try playing the DVD on another TV ?
If the TV vertical offset is not working right you could end up with this problem.

Steve Yager · May 2nd, 2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Green

If I don't deinterlace, the video is way to stroby, and my camera won't shoot true progressive video or I would be all over it. My videos are almost entirely slow mo too, not sure if that makes a difference but I think it does.

Why aren't you shooting 60i, then conforming to 24p in cinema tools?

Josh Green · May 2nd, 2007, 06:21 PM

all i know is that when i shoot in 30f the slow mo looks way worse. I always shoot 60i and use a natress's g 50% slow mo filter to split the fields and make it look smooth. How do i conform the video to 24p?

Steve Yager · May 2nd, 2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Green

all i know is that when i shoot in 30f the slow mo looks way worse. I always shoot 60i and use a natress's g 50% slow mo filter to split the fields and make it look smooth. How do i conform the video to 24p?

use the cinema tools app that came with FC Studio. Do you have that or are you working on an older version of FCP, or a "borrowed" copy?

Josh Green · May 2nd, 2007, 06:55 PM

I have cinema tools but cannot figure out how to do the conform everyone speaks of. do I capture into cineform?

Steve Yager · May 2nd, 2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Green

I have cinema tools but cannot figure out how to do the conform everyone speaks of. do I capture into cineform?

Just import the clip you want to conform (overcrank) and then click the "conform" button on cinema tools and specify the fps.

Martin Trotter · May 3rd, 2007, 05:20 AM

Hi Josh,

I'm having the EXACT same problem as you, and still have not found out whay it's happening. Like you, i also use Final Cut Pro, and shoot in 16:9 in standard DV. I run off MPEG2 not using compressor though, and then complete the DVD through DVDSP.

I've noticed that with the slow motion transitions it is particularly bad, and i also do some split screen stuff and it really shows up. It is quite visible when you play back in Final Cut Canvas, so i don't know if it's a capture problem or a software thing with Final Cut.

As far as the de-interlace, i only use that on still images used in the DVD.
If you find out why it's happening please let me know, as it's bugging the hell out of me too, and so far clients haven't spotted it, but it's only a matter of time before someone does complain about it.

Martin Trotter · May 7th, 2007, 04:25 AM

Have you found anything out yet Josh?

Don Palomaki · May 7th, 2007, 07:58 AM

The fluttering top or bottom line of letterboxed video is an artifact of the editing, compression, or monitor/display system, not the camcorder.

I've run into it when masking SD 4:3 footage in Premiere to give it a letterboxed look (for folks who want 16x9 wideangle look). But I've not yet made the effort to determine the specific source.

Stefan Scherperel · May 7th, 2007, 09:38 AM

Not a FCP user, but the way I conform 60i to 24P slow motion is the following.
Open the 60i footage in a 720P 60fps timeline
Render the footage as a 720P 60fps file
Bring the 720 60fps file into a 24P timeline
Slow the 720 60fps footage to 40% original speed.
Result= perfect slow motion footage.

you can see some of the results of this in the following trailer shot with the A1.

http://www.stefweb.net/mantoman/Trailer%20TEST%205.wmv

Trish Kerr · May 7th, 2007, 04:58 PM

that trailer looks fantastic - - a little off topic but are you using a 35m adaptor on the A1? And do you shoot everything in 60i and then convert to 24P?

trish

May 2nd, 2007, 12:24 PM	#1
Josh Green Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 77	Bottom line flickers! It's driving me crazy Hi all, I've got an issue that if resolved would increase my happiness greatly. I have an XHA1 using Final Cut Pro and Compressor. Everytime I burn my footage to DVD (using DVDSP) and play it back on a normal TV the bottom line of the video flickers. My videos are shot in 16:9 so the bottom line of the video is visible. It's not too bad so I doubt if my clients really care, but it annoys the hell out of me! Here's my workflow thus far: 1. apply deinterlace filter in FCP to all video 2. render and export as mov dv ntsc 3. use compressor to make m2v files (best DVD setting 4:3, 90 min) 4. burn disc with DVDSP I've also tried, deinterlacing in compressor, changing the upper and odd things for the deinterlacing methods in final cut and compressor Any help would be fantastic, because I'm so new at all this, and I don't know anyone that knows anything about this stuff. Thanks.

May 2nd, 2007, 01:59 PM	#2
Stefan Scherperel Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 209	Why are you deinterlacing? That most likely is your problem right there. If you want progressive scan, shoot progressive scan, if you want interlaced shoot interlaced. __________________ Stefan Scherperel SSE Productions http://www.stefweb.net

May 2nd, 2007, 02:34 PM	#3
Josh Green Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 77	deinterlacing If I don't deinterlace, the video is way to stroby, and my camera won't shoot true progressive video or I would be all over it. My videos are almost entirely slow mo too, not sure if that makes a difference but I think it does.

May 2nd, 2007, 06:21 PM	#7
Josh Green Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 77	all i know all i know is that when i shoot in 30f the slow mo looks way worse. I always shoot 60i and use a natress's g 50% slow mo filter to split the fields and make it look smooth. How do i conform the video to 24p?

May 2nd, 2007, 06:55 PM	#9
Josh Green Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 77	i have it I have cinema tools but cannot figure out how to do the conform everyone speaks of. do I capture into cineform?

May 2nd, 2007, 05:25 PM	#5
Gert Kracht Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ens, The Netherlands Posts: 198	Did you try playing the DVD on another TV ? If the TV vertical offset is not working right you could end up with this problem.

May 3rd, 2007, 05:20 AM	#11
Martin Trotter Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UK Posts: 62	Hi Josh, I'm having the EXACT same problem as you, and still have not found out whay it's happening. Like you, i also use Final Cut Pro, and shoot in 16:9 in standard DV. I run off MPEG2 not using compressor though, and then complete the DVD through DVDSP. I've noticed that with the slow motion transitions it is particularly bad, and i also do some split screen stuff and it really shows up. It is quite visible when you play back in Final Cut Canvas, so i don't know if it's a capture problem or a software thing with Final Cut. As far as the de-interlace, i only use that on still images used in the DVD. If you find out why it's happening please let me know, as it's bugging the hell out of me too, and so far clients haven't spotted it, but it's only a matter of time before someone does complain about it.

May 7th, 2007, 04:25 AM	#12
Martin Trotter Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UK Posts: 62	Have you found anything out yet Josh?

May 7th, 2007, 07:58 AM	#13
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	The fluttering top or bottom line of letterboxed video is an artifact of the editing, compression, or monitor/display system, not the camcorder. I've run into it when masking SD 4:3 footage in Premiere to give it a letterboxed look (for folks who want 16x9 wideangle look). But I've not yet made the effort to determine the specific source. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

May 7th, 2007, 09:38 AM	#14
Stefan Scherperel Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 209	Not a FCP user, but the way I conform 60i to 24P slow motion is the following. Open the 60i footage in a 720P 60fps timeline Render the footage as a 720P 60fps file Bring the 720 60fps file into a 24P timeline Slow the 720 60fps footage to 40% original speed. Result= perfect slow motion footage. you can see some of the results of this in the following trailer shot with the A1. http://www.stefweb.net/mantoman/Trailer%20TEST%205.wmv __________________ Stefan Scherperel SSE Productions http://www.stefweb.net

May 7th, 2007, 04:58 PM	#15
Trish Kerr Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 294	that trailer looks fantastic - - a little off topic but are you using a 35m adaptor on the A1? And do you shoot everything in 60i and then convert to 24P? trish