Choppy 24f. How can it be shot to look more fluid? at DVinfo.net

Nicholas Tran · April 12th, 2007, 11:25 AM

Hi. I'm new to this forum... I just picked up my XH-A1 a couple of weeks ago. I'm continuing this topic from one of Steve Demsey's sample clip posts. One of the members asked Steve how he got his 24f shots to look so fluid. I was curious myself.

While I am a fan of the 24f, I found my shots to be more choppy than it did when I use my GL2. Is there a way in post to help with the choppiness?

Gary Hanna · April 12th, 2007, 12:01 PM

Don't know what your viewing it on, but keep in mind the Canon actually only records 24 frames a second to tape, whereas most other camers record 24 frames PLUS repeat fill in frames to get to 29.97.

Eric Weiss · April 12th, 2007, 12:28 PM

hi nicholas, yeah that was me.

i found while i was fliming in 24f, the lcd/vf display was far more choppy than the playback. i imported into vegas and it was a bit smoother. playing back from the cam was pretty nice..but not very useful.

others are definitely getting smoother results, so further feedback and info would be appreciated here.

regarding the GL2 (and XL1-S) - that was "frame mode" shot at 30fps but imported as 60i.. so it appears more fluid.

as gary stated, the a1 is laying down only 24fps or 30fps and exporting it in a "progressive" way.

Bill Pryor · April 12th, 2007, 01:30 PM

Yeah, it looks choppy in the viewfinder, but it plays back smoothly. I load into FCP with the 1080p24 easy setup, and keep it in a 24p timeline. It looks like the regular 24p that it is, versus the pulldown which to my eye always creates unnatural "judder."

Doug Davis · April 13th, 2007, 08:33 AM

I found that when shooting on Auto that it sends my shutter speed through the roof during bright day shooting thus resulting in an almost gladiator effect when shooting 24p... Try setting it Tv with a shutter speed of 48ish give or take a click up or down depending on conditions...

Bill Pryor · April 13th, 2007, 12:12 PM

When shooting at 24fps you need to use the 1/48 shutter speed, unless you're looking for an effect. Video and motion picture cameras are not like still cameras where you can use the shutter to control exposure. Another reason that auto shutter mode shouldn't be used.

Alain Mayo · April 13th, 2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

When shooting at 24fps you need to use the 1/48 shutter speed, unless you're looking for an effect. Video and motion picture cameras are not like still cameras where you can use the shutter to control exposure. Another reason that auto shutter mode shouldn't be used.

Let me get this right. When you change from 60 to 24f in camera, the default shutter speed is 1/24. So It should be changed to 1/48 ? If so, what is the benefit of 1/24 or 1/48. Is everybody filming at 1/48 in the 24f mode? Sorry if the questions sound stupid but I'm a newbie in the 24 fps world.

Bill Pryor · April 13th, 2007, 01:53 PM

I don't know why the default goes to 24, but 1/48 is standard for 24fps production and 1/60 is for 30fps. Anything other than that is going to result in some sort of effect, like strobing, blurring, even fan blades spinning backwards if you go fast enough. It's true that some people have shot at 1/24 to get more light, and you can get by with that if there's not much movement in the shot.

Alain Mayo · April 13th, 2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

I don't know why the default goes to 24, but 1/48 is standard for 24fps production and 1/60 is for 30fps. Anything other than that is going to result in some sort of effect, like strobing, blurring, even fan blades spinning backwards if you go fast enough. It's true that some people have shot at 1/24 to get more light, and you can get by with that if there's not much movement in the shot.

Nice to know, Thanks

Nicholas Tran · April 18th, 2007, 01:00 PM

Great information. THANKS everyone!

James Binder · April 18th, 2007, 01:40 PM

It's odd to me -- but it does seem that 1/24 (shutter) is the defalt with the 24f setting.

I wonder why the default isn't 1/48... humm...

Bill Busby · April 18th, 2007, 03:54 PM

Strange how inconsistent some things are at times. 24f mode on mine has a default shutter of 48, like it should.

Bill

Eric Weiss · April 18th, 2007, 07:29 PM

mine has 1/24 as default.
1/48 is so much better.

thanks to everyone for their help!

Bob Benkosky · April 20th, 2007, 01:51 PM

I don't have the A1 but I did use a GL2 for awhile and I shot a short movie all at 1/60 even in dark scenes because I knew I was going to convert it all to 24p and it worked out great.

1/60 - 60i slows down perfect too.

If you shoot at 24p with these new HDV cameras, how does 24p slow down? My guess is, not good, which would mean you are taking away a great feature if you choose to slow down footage.

Or is it always about the shutter speed and not the fps per say?

So 24p can indeed slow down as well if you shoot at 1/48 shutter speed....

Can anyone clarify this?

Bill Pryor · April 20th, 2007, 02:56 PM

It worked nicely because 1/60 is the proper shutter speed for shooting 30fps.

April 12th, 2007, 11:25 AM	#1
Nicholas Tran Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 67	Choppy 24f. How can it be shot to look more fluid? Hi. I'm new to this forum... I just picked up my XH-A1 a couple of weeks ago. I'm continuing this topic from one of Steve Demsey's sample clip posts. One of the members asked Steve how he got his 24f shots to look so fluid. I was curious myself. While I am a fan of the 24f, I found my shots to be more choppy than it did when I use my GL2. Is there a way in post to help with the choppiness?

April 20th, 2007, 01:51 PM	#14
Bob Benkosky Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lake Park, Florida Posts: 202	I don't have the A1 but I did use a GL2 for awhile and I shot a short movie all at 1/60 even in dark scenes because I knew I was going to convert it all to 24p and it worked out great. 1/60 - 60i slows down perfect too. If you shoot at 24p with these new HDV cameras, how does 24p slow down? My guess is, not good, which would mean you are taking away a great feature if you choose to slow down footage. Or is it always about the shutter speed and not the fps per say? So 24p can indeed slow down as well if you shoot at 1/48 shutter speed.... Can anyone clarify this? __________________ http://www.veoh.com/channels/filmmaker My clips and films.

April 12th, 2007, 12:01 PM	#2
Gary Hanna Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United States Posts: 137	Don't know what your viewing it on, but keep in mind the Canon actually only records 24 frames a second to tape, whereas most other camers record 24 frames PLUS repeat fill in frames to get to 29.97.

April 12th, 2007, 12:28 PM	#3
Eric Weiss Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philly,PA Posts: 360	hi nicholas, yeah that was me. i found while i was fliming in 24f, the lcd/vf display was far more choppy than the playback. i imported into vegas and it was a bit smoother. playing back from the cam was pretty nice..but not very useful. others are definitely getting smoother results, so further feedback and info would be appreciated here. regarding the GL2 (and XL1-S) - that was "frame mode" shot at 30fps but imported as 60i.. so it appears more fluid. as gary stated, the a1 is laying down only 24fps or 30fps and exporting it in a "progressive" way.

April 12th, 2007, 01:30 PM	#4
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Yeah, it looks choppy in the viewfinder, but it plays back smoothly. I load into FCP with the 1080p24 easy setup, and keep it in a 24p timeline. It looks like the regular 24p that it is, versus the pulldown which to my eye always creates unnatural "judder."

April 13th, 2007, 08:33 AM	#5
Doug Davis Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Birmingham Alabama Posts: 259	I found that when shooting on Auto that it sends my shutter speed through the roof during bright day shooting thus resulting in an almost gladiator effect when shooting 24p... Try setting it Tv with a shutter speed of 48ish give or take a click up or down depending on conditions...

April 13th, 2007, 12:12 PM	#6
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	When shooting at 24fps you need to use the 1/48 shutter speed, unless you're looking for an effect. Video and motion picture cameras are not like still cameras where you can use the shutter to control exposure. Another reason that auto shutter mode shouldn't be used.

April 13th, 2007, 01:53 PM	#8
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I don't know why the default goes to 24, but 1/48 is standard for 24fps production and 1/60 is for 30fps. Anything other than that is going to result in some sort of effect, like strobing, blurring, even fan blades spinning backwards if you go fast enough. It's true that some people have shot at 1/24 to get more light, and you can get by with that if there's not much movement in the shot.

April 18th, 2007, 01:00 PM	#10
Nicholas Tran Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 67	Great information. THANKS everyone!

April 18th, 2007, 01:40 PM	#11
James Binder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NY, NYC Posts: 367	It's odd to me -- but it does seem that 1/24 (shutter) is the defalt with the 24f setting. I wonder why the default isn't 1/48... humm...

April 18th, 2007, 03:54 PM	#12
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	Strange how inconsistent some things are at times. 24f mode on mine has a default shutter of 48, like it should. Bill

April 18th, 2007, 07:29 PM	#13
Eric Weiss Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philly,PA Posts: 360	mine has 1/24 as default. 1/48 is so much better. thanks to everyone for their help!

April 20th, 2007, 02:56 PM	#15
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	It worked nicely because 1/60 is the proper shutter speed for shooting 30fps.