Feedback needed for new preset - Page 4 at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Register FAQ Today's Posts Buyer's Guides

Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 5th, 2007, 09:16 PM   #46
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,891
Unspeakably Horrid

I'll go back to system presets before I accept either of these. I've never seen A1 footage this ugly.

Steven's on the left. Mine on the right.
Attached Thumbnails
Feedback needed for new preset-070405204314-00-02-24-20.jpg   Feedback needed for new preset-070405204314-00-02-11-26.jpg  

Tom Roper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 09:39 PM   #47
Disjecta
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 937
Tom, I don't have time right now to really look at them in depth but I would try to even out the exposure setting before doing a comparison. I tried to make the one with my settings a little more like your one in terms of exposure:
Attached Thumbnails
Feedback needed for new preset-dis.jpg  
__________________
Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html
Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/
Steven Dempsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 09:58 PM   #48
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,891
They were shot at the same exposure, but yours had the cine1 gamma and -5 master pedastal giving it more contrast.
Tom Roper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 10:46 PM   #49
Disjecta
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 937
I understand. The only reason I am boosting the still with my settings is so that I can more easily judge color casts. Underexposure can cause colors to pop more than they should. I'll take a look at these tests in the morning.

Thanks for doing this, I appreciate it.
__________________
Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html
Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/
Steven Dempsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 01:56 AM   #50
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NY, NYC
Posts: 367
Interesting – notice the sidewalks in both. Tom’s use of Stevens preset looks decidedly more magenta, while Stevens use of his preset is more on the green side.

What accounts for that? Lighting conditions, the sun, time of day, etc?

Judging by the shadows, Toms is in direct overhead sunlight – while Stevens shot has softer more diffused light (again judging by the shadows).

Tom using Steven preset on Left >> Steven using Steven preset on right.
Attached Thumbnails
Feedback needed for new preset-tom-using-steven-vivid.jpg   Feedback needed for new preset-steven-vivid.jpg  

James Binder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 02:13 AM   #51
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 42
But in this last case if both cameras had the "same" default settings, shouldnt the asphalt be pretty close to the same color not having a magenta compared to a greenish? (take my sayings with a grain of salt, i am just speculating) (and trying to learn at the same time)

Last edited by Eric Sipe; April 6th, 2007 at 02:13 AM. Reason: edit
Eric Sipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 07:35 AM   #52
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida
Posts: 2,614
What white balance was used on each?

Mike
__________________
Chapter one, line one. The BH.
Mike Teutsch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 08:04 AM   #53
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,891
5600K on the white balance for both presets
Tom Roper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 08:07 AM   #54
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida
Posts: 2,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
5600K on the white balance for both presets
Doesn't look that it was that bright, looks cloudy, but at least they were both the same. Sure does not look good! :)

Mike
__________________
Chapter one, line one. The BH.
Mike Teutsch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 08:10 AM   #55
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Binder View Post
Interesting – notice the sidewalks in both. Tom’s use of Stevens preset looks decidedly more magenta, while Stevens use of his preset is more on the green side.

What accounts for that? Lighting conditions, the sun, time of day, etc?

What accounts for it I believe is that the calibrations are different between the two cams. Steven's preset is definitely better on his cam and worse on mine, and vice versa.
Tom Roper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 09:08 AM   #56
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Dempsey View Post
I understand. The only reason I am boosting the still with my settings is so that I can more easily judge color casts. Underexposure can cause colors to pop more than they should. I'll take a look at these tests in the morning.

Thanks for doing this, I appreciate it.
And I appreciate it too.
Tom Roper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 10:59 AM   #57
Disjecta
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 937
Okay Tom, here's the problem and potential solution as I see it.

I think if we are going to do a scientific test then we need to quit using a generic white balance like 56k. The shots I have taken have been mainly in the morning and evening light when there are natural casts. Because I created a neutral image, that means I am essentially changing the natural casts of nature and when the light shifts from the time I took the still, the color balance goes way off.

So here's what I did. I used a white card this morning to white balance and my preset looked horrible. I tried to calibrate it back to a neutral color palette based on the correct white balance and here's where I ended up:

EDIT at 12:16 PST: I just changed all these settings, they should be right now....the image remains the same

Gamma: Cine1
Color Matrix: Normal
Color Gain: 40
Color Phase: 0
Knee: Low
Black: Middle
Master Ped: -5
Setup Level: 0
HDF: High
H/V Detail: 0
Sharpness: 3
NR1: Off
NR2: Off
Coring: 0
Red Gain: -2
Green Gain: -15
Blue Gain: -3
RG Matrix: 0
RB Matrix: 0
GR Matrix: 0
GB Matrix: 10
BR Matrix: 0
BG Matrix: -13

Make sure you properly white balance the camera before shooting anything with this. Of course if you change the Color Matrix or Gamma, it shouldn't introduce any cast at all so it would work for your settings also. Let me know the results of your own tests.

Here's a still taken with the camera properly white-balanced:
Attached Thumbnails
Feedback needed for new preset-new.jpg  
__________________
Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html
Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

Last edited by Steven Dempsey; April 6th, 2007 at 03:29 PM.
Steven Dempsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 11:35 AM   #58
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Looks nice, but the long deep shadows indicate quite different kind of light - its effect on the picture is similar to cine gamma. So, again no good for comparison (altough your point about proper white balancing is valid of course).
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 11:48 AM   #59
Disjecta
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 937
I think this is okay for comparison because I white balanced for the dominant sunlight and most of the frame is made up of objects affected by that particular light. I don't usually white balance any other way. How do you go about white balancing for a scene, I'm curious.
__________________
Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html
Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/
Steven Dempsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 11:59 AM   #60
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Frankly, with the Canon I had to use a preset (or manually balance to a white card, when the WB was critical); the AWB I couldn't trust - it tends to be wandering which is even worse than a wrong but fixed hue. Now with the Sony, I shoot with AWB most of the time, with white walls staying all shades of white...
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; April 6th, 2007 at 01:44 PM.
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders


 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:14 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network