Setup (lack of) on the XH-A1 at DVinfo.net

Michael Bartolo · March 20th, 2007, 02:09 AM

I recently took my broadcast monitor into an experienced calibrator in Van Nuys. He asked my what I was using to get the color bars displayed in the monitor and I told him I was using the internal Canon XH-A1 SMPTE color bars as noted in custom preset 13 for the camera. I had the A1 with me and the composite output of the camera was hooked up to a waveform monitor and it was noted that the camera did not have a setup in the camera for the black level. The same occurred when the component output was attached to the the waveform monitor. I am not super knowledgeable about "setup", black levels and waveform monitors but from what I saw and the calibration person stated the A1's pedestal is not set to 7.5 IRE for the analogue outputs. When a broadcast grade Hitachi camera was attached to the same waveform monitor using the same BNC composite cable it displayed a proper setup. Is there some adjustment that I am missing with the A1 to get the camera its proper setup? Is the A1 delivered without setup; or is my camera in need of a visit to Canon to create a proper setup in the camera?

Bill Busby · March 20th, 2007, 02:54 AM

I've run the A1's bars through the BNC out to production monitor & based on the pluge pattern, it's no different than any other cam I have using bars. Same with running component out of the A1 to a LCD HD monitor. So setup seems to be 7.5-ish (with no scope).

As far as I know, there's no setup function in the A1.

By the way, it's the Custom "Function" setting, the "Preset". Just trying to avoid confusion for any new users who may read this.

Bill

Geoff Dills · March 20th, 2007, 11:10 AM

In the Canon, the setup level (SET) is adjustable from -9 to 9
Make adjustments under custom preset
From the manual p 77 "depending on the value of the master pedestal (PED), the setup level may not be able to take a negative value. In that case, the setup value within a certain value range will have no effect."

Eveything I've shot so far has proper setup levels.

Bill Busby · March 20th, 2007, 11:21 AM

I believe Michael is talking about black setup reference, as in the analog out=7.5 IRE & is a set reference level no matter what Custom Presets are set for.

Some cameras have a menu setting for 7.5 IRE or 0 IRE (or none)

Bill

Barry Gribble · March 20th, 2007, 11:38 AM

Maybe a silly question here... but with the digital out, what is the purpose of the bars? I can see it being useful to set up the camera for mixing a live broadcast maybe, but what purpose does it serve to put bars on tape? My editor/colorist has never used them at all and can't even tell me what he might use them for.

Thanks.

Geoff Dills · March 20th, 2007, 12:09 PM

Bars are useful in the field to setup your monitor properly. I put them on tape simply to use up the first 30 seconds of the start of the tape as it is an old practice from knowing that part of the tape sometimes is what gets chewed on by faulty machines.

I know what you're talking about now...some cameras allow for either Japan or US standards. Looking at bars in Avid's scopes, all my color bars appear normal. What comes out of the analog spigot looks fine to me (don't have an external scope to measure). Don't see a setup/nosetup choice anywhere. Maybe someone can find out what the camera is set to spit out of the analog ports.

Michael Bartolo · March 20th, 2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Busby

I believe Michael is talking about black setup reference, as in the analog out=7.5 IRE & is a set reference level no matter what Custom Presets are set for.

Some cameras have a menu setting for 7.5 IRE or 0 IRE (or none)

Bill

That is correct Bill. I wonder if there is a factory setup adjustment that Canon can perform in the service menu to set the analogue out black level for 7.5 IRE. I have called Canon service but am unable to talk to anyone who has the kind of detailed knowledge about the A1 to answer the question. This is the only way I currently have to get color bars into my braodcast monitor without the use of a separate signal generator or a different camera. I really wanted to use those A1 color bars for monitor calibration purposes.

Bill Busby · March 20th, 2007, 03:01 PM

Like I said before though, there's no difference (to my eye anyway) from the A1's bars than 2 other cams I own when output through analog & I know for a fact both of those have setup at 7.5 IRE.

Too bad it seems it's nearly impossible to get someone at Canon that knows anything. I've read posts stating this many times elsewhere here. Maybe it's a it's a matter of "knowing who to talk to" kind of thing.

Mine certainly can't be 0 or no setup. If it was it would be too noticeable. Did the tech say just what the measurement was reading?

Bill

March 20th, 2007, 02:09 AM	#1
Michael Bartolo New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 21	Setup (lack of) on the XH-A1 I recently took my broadcast monitor into an experienced calibrator in Van Nuys. He asked my what I was using to get the color bars displayed in the monitor and I told him I was using the internal Canon XH-A1 SMPTE color bars as noted in custom preset 13 for the camera. I had the A1 with me and the composite output of the camera was hooked up to a waveform monitor and it was noted that the camera did not have a setup in the camera for the black level. The same occurred when the component output was attached to the the waveform monitor. I am not super knowledgeable about "setup", black levels and waveform monitors but from what I saw and the calibration person stated the A1's pedestal is not set to 7.5 IRE for the analogue outputs. When a broadcast grade Hitachi camera was attached to the same waveform monitor using the same BNC composite cable it displayed a proper setup. Is there some adjustment that I am missing with the A1 to get the camera its proper setup? Is the A1 delivered without setup; or is my camera in need of a visit to Canon to create a proper setup in the camera?

March 20th, 2007, 11:38 AM	#5
Barry Gribble Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 817	Maybe a silly question here... but with the digital out, what is the purpose of the bars? I can see it being useful to set up the camera for mixing a live broadcast maybe, but what purpose does it serve to put bars on tape? My editor/colorist has never used them at all and can't even tell me what he might use them for. Thanks. __________________ Barry Gribble Integral Arts, IMDB

March 20th, 2007, 02:54 AM	#2
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	I've run the A1's bars through the BNC out to production monitor & based on the pluge pattern, it's no different than any other cam I have using bars. Same with running component out of the A1 to a LCD HD monitor. So setup seems to be 7.5-ish (with no scope). As far as I know, there's no setup function in the A1. By the way, it's the Custom "Function" setting, the "Preset". Just trying to avoid confusion for any new users who may read this. Bill

March 20th, 2007, 11:10 AM	#3
Geoff Dills Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 85	In the Canon, the setup level (SET) is adjustable from -9 to 9 Make adjustments under custom preset From the manual p 77 "depending on the value of the master pedestal (PED), the setup level may not be able to take a negative value. In that case, the setup value within a certain value range will have no effect." Eveything I've shot so far has proper setup levels.

March 20th, 2007, 11:21 AM	#4
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	I believe Michael is talking about black setup reference, as in the analog out=7.5 IRE & is a set reference level no matter what Custom Presets are set for. Some cameras have a menu setting for 7.5 IRE or 0 IRE (or none) Bill

March 20th, 2007, 12:09 PM	#6
Geoff Dills Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 85	Bars are useful in the field to setup your monitor properly. I put them on tape simply to use up the first 30 seconds of the start of the tape as it is an old practice from knowing that part of the tape sometimes is what gets chewed on by faulty machines. I know what you're talking about now...some cameras allow for either Japan or US standards. Looking at bars in Avid's scopes, all my color bars appear normal. What comes out of the analog spigot looks fine to me (don't have an external scope to measure). Don't see a setup/nosetup choice anywhere. Maybe someone can find out what the camera is set to spit out of the analog ports.

March 20th, 2007, 03:01 PM	#8
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	Like I said before though, there's no difference (to my eye anyway) from the A1's bars than 2 other cams I own when output through analog & I know for a fact both of those have setup at 7.5 IRE. Too bad it seems it's nearly impossible to get someone at Canon that knows anything. I've read posts stating this many times elsewhere here. Maybe it's a it's a matter of "knowing who to talk to" kind of thing. Mine certainly can't be 0 or no setup. If it was it would be too noticeable. Did the tech say just what the measurement was reading? Bill