mixer output into xha1 at DVinfo.net

Larry Vaughn · February 27th, 2007, 10:34 PM

I have a Mackie satellite. It has 2 mic preamps. I want to use it for an external mixer and record 2 channel audio into the XH-A1. I assume I would use the xlr inputs set to line in and turn off the mic gain.

Is there any reason why I couldn't sefely do this?

Martin Saxer · February 28th, 2007, 02:22 AM

That's what the XLR inputs are made for. Just switch them from mic to line.

Martin

Bill Pryor · February 28th, 2007, 02:18 PM

Most mixers have both mic and line out, so you could go either way. Just make sure if your camera is set to line in, your mixer is set to line out.

Neil McLean · March 1st, 2007, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Vaughn

I have a Mackie satellite. It has 2 mic preamps. I want to use it for an external mixer and record 2 channel audio into the XH-A1. I assume I would use the xlr inputs set to line in and turn off the mic gain.

Is there any reason why I couldn't sefely do this?

Hi Larry,

I used a Korg D3200 audio mixer at the weekend and plugged the master L & R tracks straight into the XH-A1 to give me two independent channels.

This set up gave me exception audio as I had six microphones, on low-level stands, lined up along the front of the floor at event I was filming.

A word of caution - check your levels at the XH-A1!

For what it's worth, I has to set my Korg D3200 master output levels to about 30dB to allow for headroom. This setup worked exceptionally well with my XH-A1 as things didn't clip.

Good luck
Neil

Larry Vaughn · March 1st, 2007, 10:07 AM

I was trying to find out from Canon what happens when I use the line in via the xlr.

No one seems to know if the internal preamps are bypassed when you do this. The mackie people claim their preamps are great, but the Canon tech don't seem to know if the internal XH-A1 preamps are bypassed when using line-in. He told me that the phantom power is shut off (but that isn't the same as the preamp circuitry as far as I know).

If they are not, I don't see much reason to do what I am attempting to do, which is get better sound by using the satellite but still recording sound onto the camera tape. The onyx satellite only has 1/4" balanced line out female jacks for output, which also can be used for headphone connections.

Actually it's built for recording to an computer, I'm just trying to see what else it will do. It has 2 mike inputs (the portable part) so I can't do record from more than 2 mikes at one time.

Mark Shea · March 18th, 2007, 08:20 PM

hi

I read in a review that with the two xlr inputs on the A1, you can only set both to either line in or mic in. This seems a bit restrictive as most times I need the extra xlr input is when I am recording a concert and have my mic for live sound and a line in from the desk

Mark

James Hooey · March 18th, 2007, 09:14 PM

If the mic/line switch is in line mode on the XH-A1 two things SHOULD happen from an audio standpoint...

1. the gain structure of the input should change from approximately -25 to -45 dbv (general microphone signal output) to -10 dbv (standard line level output).

2. The phantom power will be superflous as it is not needed by line level devices...it should, if the camera is designed with an understanding of audio, turn off the phantom power. However, it would not harm line level devices and should not generally be audible even if present.

I cannot confirm any of this from Canon documentation but working with audio for 20 years I can say that this is the norm.

There are other considerations if the mixing board is switchable between +4dbv (higher end professional equipment with increased signal to noise ratio) or general -10dbv line level or even mic level (below -25dbv). In this instance I would assume that the XH-A1 would generally be happier with the -10 level (more consumer esque so to speak) although since there are gain controls on the camera it may be possible to use the higher +4 level with the gain turned low on the camera.

As for which mic preamps to use between the camera or the mixer. I looked at the Onyx online (the 1220 model specifically). It has 4 mix inputs and it's main outputs are XLR balanced outs, switchable between mic/+4 dbv. In this instance I would suggest the mic into the board (the mixers mic preamps will be better than the cameras in signal to noise and possibly frequency response) and a +4 signal out of the mains. Set the mic inputs on the camera to line input (no option for a +4 signal) and turn the gain on the inputs all the way down and then bring them up slowly to optimal levels on the cameras audio meters. If it's too much signal you will know it...the levels at the camera will be pinned most of the time.

Your options then are to either have low main fader levels at the board (increases signal to noise though!), put a pad into the signal chain between board and camera(causes frequency shifts sometimes), or switch the board output to mic and turn the camera inputs to mic (right back to using the cameras preamps anyway). If this is the case then it may also be a toss up between simply using the cameras slightly noiser preamps for two mics or taking the hit with unmatched signal levels and dealing with those.

There are several different signal paths to consider and a test between them all may yeild the most subject results to your ears. The quick answer...use the board (it's preamps should be the best available quality option) and go to the camera via +4 if possible.

Jay Fisk · March 18th, 2007, 10:56 PM

The XH-A1 or G1 will both handle a +4dBV signal level but only via the XLR input (pin1: shield, pin2: hot, pin3: cold)

Max is 6 dBV (Auto mode)/10 kohms (LINE/MIC switch set to LINE) only via XLR

If you're wired to the 3.5mm mini jack the spec is -10 dBV /47 kohms

It's all on page 159 of the manual.

February 27th, 2007, 10:34 PM	#1
Larry Vaughn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 201	mixer output into xha1 I have a Mackie satellite. It has 2 mic preamps. I want to use it for an external mixer and record 2 channel audio into the XH-A1. I assume I would use the xlr inputs set to line in and turn off the mic gain. Is there any reason why I couldn't sefely do this?

March 1st, 2007, 10:07 AM	#5
Larry Vaughn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 201	internal preamps I was trying to find out from Canon what happens when I use the line in via the xlr. No one seems to know if the internal preamps are bypassed when you do this. The mackie people claim their preamps are great, but the Canon tech don't seem to know if the internal XH-A1 preamps are bypassed when using line-in. He told me that the phantom power is shut off (but that isn't the same as the preamp circuitry as far as I know). If they are not, I don't see much reason to do what I am attempting to do, which is get better sound by using the satellite but still recording sound onto the camera tape. The onyx satellite only has 1/4" balanced line out female jacks for output, which also can be used for headphone connections. Actually it's built for recording to an computer, I'm just trying to see what else it will do. It has 2 mike inputs (the portable part) so I can't do record from more than 2 mikes at one time.

March 18th, 2007, 08:20 PM	#6
Mark Shea Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: no fixed address Posts: 119	a1 audio capabilities hi I read in a review that with the two xlr inputs on the A1, you can only set both to either line in or mic in. This seems a bit restrictive as most times I need the extra xlr input is when I am recording a concert and have my mic for live sound and a line in from the desk Mark

March 18th, 2007, 10:56 PM	#8
Jay Fisk Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: CSL BCS MX Posts: 67	+4 is OK The XH-A1 or G1 will both handle a +4dBV signal level but only via the XLR input (pin1: shield, pin2: hot, pin3: cold) Max is 6 dBV (Auto mode)/10 kohms (LINE/MIC switch set to LINE) only via XLR If you're wired to the 3.5mm mini jack the spec is -10 dBV /47 kohms It's all on page 159 of the manual.

February 28th, 2007, 02:22 AM	#2
Martin Saxer Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oxford, UK (until 2008: Lhasa, Tibetan Autonomous Region) Posts: 65	That's what the XLR inputs are made for. Just switch them from mic to line. Martin

February 28th, 2007, 02:18 PM	#3
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Most mixers have both mic and line out, so you could go either way. Just make sure if your camera is set to line in, your mixer is set to line out.

March 18th, 2007, 09:14 PM	#7
James Hooey Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bruce Pennisula, Canada Posts: 316	If the mic/line switch is in line mode on the XH-A1 two things SHOULD happen from an audio standpoint... 1. the gain structure of the input should change from approximately -25 to -45 dbv (general microphone signal output) to -10 dbv (standard line level output). 2. The phantom power will be superflous as it is not needed by line level devices...it should, if the camera is designed with an understanding of audio, turn off the phantom power. However, it would not harm line level devices and should not generally be audible even if present. I cannot confirm any of this from Canon documentation but working with audio for 20 years I can say that this is the norm. There are other considerations if the mixing board is switchable between +4dbv (higher end professional equipment with increased signal to noise ratio) or general -10dbv line level or even mic level (below -25dbv). In this instance I would assume that the XH-A1 would generally be happier with the -10 level (more consumer esque so to speak) although since there are gain controls on the camera it may be possible to use the higher +4 level with the gain turned low on the camera. As for which mic preamps to use between the camera or the mixer. I looked at the Onyx online (the 1220 model specifically). It has 4 mix inputs and it's main outputs are XLR balanced outs, switchable between mic/+4 dbv. In this instance I would suggest the mic into the board (the mixers mic preamps will be better than the cameras in signal to noise and possibly frequency response) and a +4 signal out of the mains. Set the mic inputs on the camera to line input (no option for a +4 signal) and turn the gain on the inputs all the way down and then bring them up slowly to optimal levels on the cameras audio meters. If it's too much signal you will know it...the levels at the camera will be pinned most of the time. Your options then are to either have low main fader levels at the board (increases signal to noise though!), put a pad into the signal chain between board and camera(causes frequency shifts sometimes), or switch the board output to mic and turn the camera inputs to mic (right back to using the cameras preamps anyway). If this is the case then it may also be a toss up between simply using the cameras slightly noiser preamps for two mics or taking the hit with unmatched signal levels and dealing with those. There are several different signal paths to consider and a test between them all may yeild the most subject results to your ears. The quick answer...use the board (it's preamps should be the best available quality option) and go to the camera via +4 if possible.