Color Matrix adjustments? at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Register FAQ Today's Posts Buyer's Guides

Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 24th, 2007, 08:55 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Munich (Germany)
Posts: 107
Images: 4
Color Matrix adjustments?

I tried to read what has already be posted on the camera "color matrix" adjustments and Canon's doc, and I also tried to experiment a bit, but I am hopelessly confused.

For a start: can someone please explain me why there are 2 adjustements per color? For example, on Canon's doc I read:

G-B matrix: This adjusts the color tint without affecting R (red).
B-G matrix: This adjusts the color tint without affecting R (red).

So what is the difference between G-B and B-G matrices?


Apparently, the "console" software is able to show the effect of R, G and B matrices in its "variation" window. Maybe someone could post a screen capture of this window?
Jerome Marot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2007, 11:03 AM   #2
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 27,368
Images: 513
See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=86102

and http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....2&postcount=15

I'll look for a screen grab, but you can download a trial version of Console and see it for yourself.

Edit: see a grab of the variation window at the bottom of this page: http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XL...ec_panel.shtml
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | 20 years of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2007, 04:43 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Munich (Germany)
Posts: 107
Images: 4
I found those posts already, but the tests I tried do not appear consistent with this explanations. Increasing the R-G matrix, a red apple should turn green (or brown= red + green), but it does not happen. And those posts do not explain why the matrixes have negative values (how can you remove green from a red apple?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
I'll look for a screen grab, but you can download a trial version of Console and see it for yourself.
As soon as they have a mac version, I will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
Edit: see a grab of the variation window at the bottom of this page: http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XL...ec_panel.shtml
That is the screen grab which made me aware of the "variations" window. What I need is someone to select the "Red matrix" (or green, or blue) on that window and to post THAT screen grab, thanks.
Jerome Marot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2007, 05:15 PM   #4
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW area, TX
Posts: 6,117
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot
Increasing the R-G matrix, a red apple should turn green (or brown= red + green), but it does not happen.
Jerome, increasing R-G will do nothing to a red apple. This adjustment is going to put red into the green channel. A red apple will stay red, but a green apple would start to turn brown. If you want to change the color of the red apple, then you would adjust G-R which would allow green to be added to the red object.

-gb-
Greg Boston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2007, 05:41 PM   #5
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 27,368
Images: 513
These grabs from the Console variations screen are from an XL H1, however the XH A1 will be very similar, but with a wider range of adjustment. The target is a DSC Labs CamBook. Sorry it's so quick and dirty (the dark blob at the one o'clock position of the test chart is simply a reflection of the XL H1 stereo microphone). Color, R Matrix, G Matrix, B Matrix. Click to see them bigger. Hope this helps,
Attached Thumbnails
Color Matrix adjustments?-convar-color.jpg   Color Matrix adjustments?-convar-rmatrix.jpg  

Color Matrix adjustments?-convar-gmatrix.jpg   Color Matrix adjustments?-convar-bmatrix.jpg  

__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | 20 years of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2007, 02:42 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Munich (Germany)
Posts: 107
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Boston
Jerome, increasing R-G will do nothing to a red apple. This adjustment is going to put red into the green channel. A red apple will stay red, but a green apple would start to turn brown. If you want to change the color of the red apple, then you would adjust G-R which would allow green to be added to the red object.

-gb-
Increasing R-G does change the reds, try it for yourself. (edit: or try the "convar-rmatrix.jpg posted above)
Jerome Marot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2007, 02:44 AM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Munich (Germany)
Posts: 107
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
These grabs from the Console variations screen are from an XL H1, however the XH A1 will be very similar, but with a wider range of adjustment. The target is a DSC Labs CamBook. Sorry it's so quick and dirty (the dark blob at the one o'clock position of the test chart is simply a reflection of the XL H1 stereo microphone). Color, R Matrix, G Matrix, B Matrix. Click to see them bigger. Hope this helps,
Exactly what I needed! Thanks a lot!
Jerome Marot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2007, 03:40 AM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Munich (Germany)
Posts: 107
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot
G-B matrix: This adjusts the color tint without affecting R (red).
B-G matrix: This adjusts the color tint without affecting R (red).

So what is the difference between G-B and B-G matrices?
So from the screen grabs Chris was kind enough to post, it seems that the answer to my question is:
G-B and B-G both affect the saturation of the G and B colors without affecting R colors. The difference appears to be that G-B affects the saturation of B more than G and conversely B-G affects G more than B.
Jerome Marot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2009, 11:52 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burbank CA
Posts: 466
blue red problem

Hey guys, reading your post almost 3 yrs later, I have a problem with theatre shows. The dresses in this picture are purple(except for the center gray one) and they're supposed to be burgundy. They are missing the red tint. Any suggestions about fixing this? It's about a 40 minute show and each time the girls come out in these dresses, they are the "wrong" color. Other colors are resolving seemingly well. It appears to be red/blue issue.
Seems like I want to try the R-B matrix? Add red to the blue? I'm also going to lower the blue gain about -10 and increase the red gain about the same.
thx
Canon XH-A1
Attached Thumbnails
Color Matrix adjustments?-sample-frame.png  

Last edited by David Morgan; December 5th, 2009 at 01:30 PM.
David Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2009, 03:57 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sydney.
Posts: 2,931
David, it's not something to do with coloured stage lighting is it?

I think it'll be easier if you load a custom preset and experiment with that, get as close as you can and colcorrect it in post.

I'd use VIVIDRGB and increase the red. The problem will be assessing it on site,
HTH Cheers.
__________________
Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.
Allan Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2009, 04:58 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burbank CA
Posts: 466
not sure what u mean by colored? Gels? the lighting guy assured me that the color temp and gels etc... were all tungsten family. He said there were no daylight elements involved with the lights at all. so......
David Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6th, 2009, 03:03 AM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sydney.
Posts: 2,931
I meant the colour of the house lighting, coloured spots and stage fill lighting etc.

Cheers.
__________________
Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.
Allan Black is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders


 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:37 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network