Which camera should I get, the XL2 or XH A1?

Bill Busby · January 17th, 2007, 09:31 AM

Back in the day, I was guilty of this as well, but here's my analogy regarding tripods...

Take that BMW purchase... let's say it doesn't come stock with tires... you have multitudes of choices & the very least expensive tires you choose are re-treads (not sure those are even made any more :).

There ya go :)

I know a couple of people still to this day that have 15-20 lb. broadcast cameras & using ancient Bogen gear & that old mini "fluid" (I call it "grease") head, or whatever it's called, that really is designed for lightweight camcorders of the past weighing less than 10 lbs. or so. It cracks me up at times.

I agree though. Libec makes the best tripod value for the buck & am thinking of selling my Cartoni AlfaII & buying the Libec LI-38, if not the 22.

Bill

Alex Leith · January 17th, 2007, 09:35 AM

I've used Libec tripods for years, and they are really good - especially for the price.

Harm Millaard · January 17th, 2007, 09:56 AM

To continue on the automotive analogy, consider the tires to be your camera, used to roll. Consider the car to be your tripod. The lifetime of your car (tripod) is far longer than a set of tires (your camera). The investment in a good tripod with a good fluid head is one that will last you for many, many years and through multiple generations of cameras. The HDV quality you can get now also makes the investment in a high quality tripod/head combination that much more important, because every unintended movement will be much more distracting than with older generation cameras. I've heard people saying that in the past the price ratio between the camera and a tripod, as a rule of thumb, was around 4 to 1, but with the new generation may now have to go up to around 3 to 1 or even 2 to 1.

My suggestion is to get the camera, extra batteries and a good tripod and take your shots. In the future you will have all these fabulous films and can then start to edit. Why invest in HDV editing software now, when there is hardly any affordable way to deliver the quality? Just wait a bit. Easier on the wallet/credit card too.

Giles Buchanan · January 17th, 2007, 10:49 AM

Ok, thats all good. I've got a whole list of things I'd like to get at some point. Putting them in priority order is the next task, and as others have outlined, it would seem a tripod is a pretty smart next step, extra batteries are essential too.

I'm not actually too fussed about the HD at the moment. I just like the fact it's there and I'm ready to switch when I need to in 1 year, 2 years or however long into the future.

So, what NLE SW could be looking into, to edit the SDV footage from the A1? Do they still sell the old versions of Premiere Pro? (I'm a windows user BTW) I also once read that, a legal version of Premiere Pro can be installed on about 5 pc's if i'm not mistaken. Or do all of the pc's have to belong to the owner?

I could ask about and pay somebody half the price maybe...?

All this advice, has saved me days worth of wasting time on the net! It's brilliant!

Alex Leith · January 17th, 2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giles Buchanan

Do they still sell the old versions of Premiere Pro? (I'm a windows user BTW) I also once read that, a legal version of Premiere Pro can be installed on about 5 pc's if i'm not mistaken. Or do all of the pc's have to belong to the owner?

I think it would be pretty likely that the license is for a single user on up to [x] number of PCs.

But you're a student, so you could get an academic version, which are quite a bit cheaper?

Extra batteries you can find on eBay. Search for BP-945. You can get 6600mA versions, which have a better battery life than the (expensive) Canon BP-950G batteries for about £15 each. I have 4 (plus the standard battery), but I only ever seem to use about 2 in a day.

And you'll be surprised how quickly you'll want to switch to HD. I wasn't interested in HD until I got an HDV camera, and that quickly changed my mind. With so many cheap flat panel TVs around, it won't be long before HD becomes the norm.

Donal Heath · February 22nd, 2007, 08:22 AM

I'm looking for some advice from those with experience about which camera it would be better for me to buy - the XL2 or the XH A1. From what I can gather about the versatility of the two, the XH A1 seems like the better camera, and indeed it is the newer model, but it is generally less expensive than the XL2, so what are the main pros and cons of having one over the other?

No doubt the answer depends hugely on what I want to shoot, but I figure it might also depend on the other resources I might need for editing, etc.

I'm pretty good with technology and what factors this kind of decision involves, I'm just not experienced with cameras.

I may want to shoot fast moving images and may not always have the ability to light my subjects as well as I'd like to.

I might not want or be able to shoot in HD with from the outset or indeed for a while, even if I do go for the XH A1.

I have a reasonably good though not Rolls Royce PC on which to edit, and an awareness that I might need a whole raft of peripheral equipment to convert and process images, but if so I want to be able to do that as economically as possible.

Any help would be very gratefully received!

Donal

Dean Waterman · February 22nd, 2007, 08:30 AM

Get the XH-A1. Why pay almost the same for an XL2 when you get the XH-A1 with DV shooting and HD. The technology is better, the picture is better, and you have everything you need right now. And, I have had both units, and the XH-A1 feels like a higher quality unit.

James Binder · February 22nd, 2007, 08:32 AM

The A1.

B&H is selling them for only a $100 difference. Unless removable/ interchangeable lenses are an issue -- I'd think it's a pretty clear choice.

I'm a new owner, and the A1 can do everything the XL2 can do and more. Aside from its HDV capability, it has some very nice features that the XL1 lacks...

Chris Hurd · February 22nd, 2007, 08:36 AM

The primary differences that the XL has over the XH:

a. interchangeable lenses, not an issue for many people
b. four-channel audio (vs. two-channel on the XH)
c. entirely different form factor (shoulder vs. handheld)

Chris Ruiz · February 22nd, 2007, 10:21 AM

HD HD HD!!!!

:::pants:::

Giles Buchanan · February 22nd, 2007, 10:57 AM

Hey Donal,

I had exactly the same dilemma as you literally weeks ago and I've finally got an A1 in my hands.... OH S*** This camera is SWEET! The only thing the Xl2 has over the A1 are the interchangeable lenses... that is it!

I too am only using the SD at the moment, and my god does the footage look good! I've heard people talking about shooting in HD then down rezzing but I don't know how to do that yet... + there are less problems with grain & focus when shooting in SD, though I know the grain can be sorted out, but I'm just playing with the SD at the mo.

Being a student, I was quite lucky in the fact that I was able to get Adobe Production Studio for £250 which was awesome too.

I spend weeks trying to figure out which one to buy, I will save you the wait, as have the previous posters... Get the A1! Don't look back, I haven't...

Just one word of advice, DO NOT buy it from Television Mall (.co.uk)!!!! I did and it arrived a month later! Worst customer service I've ever experienced!

Giles (UK)

Donal Heath · February 22nd, 2007, 04:23 PM

Thanks for all that guys, that's a great help. And yes I was looking at Television Mall but I'm now contemplating a shopping trip to Hong Kong!

Anthony Leong · February 22nd, 2007, 04:54 PM

GO buy the Canon XH-A1.

Stephen Claus · February 22nd, 2007, 10:37 PM

SD is dead.

Steve Wolla · February 22nd, 2007, 11:38 PM

Even in SD, few cams can match the A1. It's just a great design. Get the A1 over the XL2. A1 is much more flexible, more capable.

January 17th, 2007, 09:35 AM	#17
Alex Leith Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Northampton, England Posts: 500	I've used Libec tripods for years, and they are really good - especially for the price. __________________ Alex

February 22nd, 2007, 08:22 AM	#21
Donal Heath New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 6	Which camera should I get, the XL2 or XH A1? I'm looking for some advice from those with experience about which camera it would be better for me to buy - the XL2 or the XH A1. From what I can gather about the versatility of the two, the XH A1 seems like the better camera, and indeed it is the newer model, but it is generally less expensive than the XL2, so what are the main pros and cons of having one over the other? No doubt the answer depends hugely on what I want to shoot, but I figure it might also depend on the other resources I might need for editing, etc. I'm pretty good with technology and what factors this kind of decision involves, I'm just not experienced with cameras. I may want to shoot fast moving images and may not always have the ability to light my subjects as well as I'd like to. I might not want or be able to shoot in HD with from the outset or indeed for a while, even if I do go for the XH A1. I have a reasonably good though not Rolls Royce PC on which to edit, and an awareness that I might need a whole raft of peripheral equipment to convert and process images, but if so I want to be able to do that as economically as possible. Any help would be very gratefully received! Donal

February 22nd, 2007, 08:36 AM	#24
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	The primary differences that the XL has over the XH: a. interchangeable lenses, not an issue for many people b. four-channel audio (vs. two-channel on the XH) c. entirely different form factor (shoulder vs. handheld) __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 22nd, 2007, 10:21 AM	#25
Chris Ruiz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Moreno Valley, CA Posts: 29	HD HD HD!!!! :::pants::: __________________ 2 Canon XH-A1's WD-H72 Wide-Angle Adaptor Petrol PCCB-2N Poratabrace RSXHAG1 Rain Slicker Sennheiser ME-80\K3U Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ Tapes Sony Vegas 7 & Final Cut Pro iMac COMING SOON: New sound package!

February 22nd, 2007, 04:23 PM	#27
Donal Heath New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 6	Thank you! Thanks for all that guys, that's a great help. And yes I was looking at Television Mall but I'm now contemplating a shopping trip to Hong Kong!

January 17th, 2007, 09:31 AM	#16
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	Back in the day, I was guilty of this as well, but here's my analogy regarding tripods... Take that BMW purchase... let's say it doesn't come stock with tires... you have multitudes of choices & the very least expensive tires you choose are re-treads (not sure those are even made any more :). There ya go :) I know a couple of people still to this day that have 15-20 lb. broadcast cameras & using ancient Bogen gear & that old mini "fluid" (I call it "grease") head, or whatever it's called, that really is designed for lightweight camcorders of the past weighing less than 10 lbs. or so. It cracks me up at times. I agree though. Libec makes the best tripod value for the buck & am thinking of selling my Cartoni AlfaII & buying the Libec LI-38, if not the 22. Bill

January 17th, 2007, 09:56 AM	#18
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	To continue on the automotive analogy, consider the tires to be your camera, used to roll. Consider the car to be your tripod. The lifetime of your car (tripod) is far longer than a set of tires (your camera). The investment in a good tripod with a good fluid head is one that will last you for many, many years and through multiple generations of cameras. The HDV quality you can get now also makes the investment in a high quality tripod/head combination that much more important, because every unintended movement will be much more distracting than with older generation cameras. I've heard people saying that in the past the price ratio between the camera and a tripod, as a rule of thumb, was around 4 to 1, but with the new generation may now have to go up to around 3 to 1 or even 2 to 1. My suggestion is to get the camera, extra batteries and a good tripod and take your shots. In the future you will have all these fabulous films and can then start to edit. Why invest in HDV editing software now, when there is hardly any affordable way to deliver the quality? Just wait a bit. Easier on the wallet/credit card too.

January 17th, 2007, 10:49 AM	#19
Giles Buchanan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 41	Ok, thats all good. I've got a whole list of things I'd like to get at some point. Putting them in priority order is the next task, and as others have outlined, it would seem a tripod is a pretty smart next step, extra batteries are essential too. I'm not actually too fussed about the HD at the moment. I just like the fact it's there and I'm ready to switch when I need to in 1 year, 2 years or however long into the future. So, what NLE SW could be looking into, to edit the SDV footage from the A1? Do they still sell the old versions of Premiere Pro? (I'm a windows user BTW) I also once read that, a legal version of Premiere Pro can be installed on about 5 pc's if i'm not mistaken. Or do all of the pc's have to belong to the owner? I could ask about and pay somebody half the price maybe...? All this advice, has saved me days worth of wasting time on the net! It's brilliant!

February 22nd, 2007, 08:30 AM	#22
Dean Waterman New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 17	Get the XH-A1. Why pay almost the same for an XL2 when you get the XH-A1 with DV shooting and HD. The technology is better, the picture is better, and you have everything you need right now. And, I have had both units, and the XH-A1 feels like a higher quality unit.

February 22nd, 2007, 08:32 AM	#23
James Binder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NY, NYC Posts: 367	The A1. B&H is selling them for only a $100 difference. Unless removable/ interchangeable lenses are an issue -- I'd think it's a pretty clear choice. I'm a new owner, and the A1 can do everything the XL2 can do and more. Aside from its HDV capability, it has some very nice features that the XL1 lacks...

February 22nd, 2007, 10:57 AM	#26
Giles Buchanan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 41	Hey Donal, I had exactly the same dilemma as you literally weeks ago and I've finally got an A1 in my hands.... OH S*** This camera is SWEET! The only thing the Xl2 has over the A1 are the interchangeable lenses... that is it! I too am only using the SD at the moment, and my god does the footage look good! I've heard people talking about shooting in HD then down rezzing but I don't know how to do that yet... + there are less problems with grain & focus when shooting in SD, though I know the grain can be sorted out, but I'm just playing with the SD at the mo. Being a student, I was quite lucky in the fact that I was able to get Adobe Production Studio for £250 which was awesome too. I spend weeks trying to figure out which one to buy, I will save you the wait, as have the previous posters... Get the A1! Don't look back, I haven't... Just one word of advice, DO NOT buy it from Television Mall (.co.uk)!!!! I did and it arrived a month later! Worst customer service I've ever experienced! Giles (UK)

February 22nd, 2007, 04:54 PM	#28
Anthony Leong Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: United States Posts: 93	GO buy the Canon XH-A1.

February 22nd, 2007, 10:37 PM	#29
Stephen Claus Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Rochester, NH Posts: 66	SD is dead.

February 22nd, 2007, 11:38 PM	#30
Steve Wolla Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 477	Even in SD, few cams can match the A1. It's just a great design. Get the A1 over the XL2. A1 is much more flexible, more capable.