Export through A1 or Deck ? at DVinfo.net

Adrian Paul Spiteri · February 11th, 2007, 01:45 PM

What are you using to transfer video from tape to computer ? Are you transferring it through the A1, another camcorder or a deck?

Byron Huskey · February 11th, 2007, 04:34 PM

I personally am using the camera itself, as I can't afford a deck. However, I've heard that so far only the Canon line (such as the A1, the HV10/20, or *possibly* the XH-L1) can output 24F. Correct me if I'm wrong there, but I think that's how things stand so far.

Bill Pryor · February 11th, 2007, 05:54 PM

All the Canon HDV cameras can be used as decks for the 24f HDV mode. If you're shooting 60i, allegedly you can use a Sony deck. Shooting 24p in SD mode works on Sony decks. The only thing that does not work on any deck is 24f in HDV, as I understand, so you have to use one of the cameras as a deck. The upcoming HV20 would be a nice thing to have, since it not only will play out your 24p footage, you can also shoot 24p with it.

Dom Stevenson · February 12th, 2007, 12:04 PM

We had this discussion only two days ago Adrian.
Check out the post "A1 capture options?"
I shall be using the A1 and making the most of Final Cut's media manager to minimise the wear and tear on the cameras heads.

Bill Pryor · February 12th, 2007, 01:15 PM

What I've been doing is to set an in point at the head and out point at the end of the tape and capture the whole thing at once. FCP divides it into individual clips automatically, so you eliminate the start-stop-rewind for every clip.

Jeremiah McLamb · February 12th, 2007, 04:42 PM

Is there any word on a deck from canon that will handle the HD 24f? And on top of that...handle DVCAM size tapes as well..like the new sony deck does
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...p=142&id=84297

Dom Stevenson · February 12th, 2007, 04:50 PM

HEY Bill. Are you talking about Batch capture? Is this method timecode reliant? Haven't heard of such a workflow in FCP, but it sounds like just what i need. Can you give me more info of how it works. I like batch capture but its tough on the heads and often doesn't work. I often end up using capture now which i'm told can cause out of sync behaviour though its always been fine for me.
Dom

Barlow Elton · February 12th, 2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

What I've been doing is to set an in point at the head and out point at the end of the tape and capture the whole thing at once. FCP divides it into individual clips automatically, so you eliminate the start-stop-rewind for every clip.

I do this too and it works great.

Bill Pryor · February 12th, 2007, 07:18 PM

In the earlier version of FCP you could capture the whole tape, and it would capture as one clip, but then you could turn on the DV...uh, I forget what it's called, but it would show you separate clips for every time the camera turned on; ie., it would recognize time code breaks. Then you could label each one if you wanted. It made capture faster because you don't go through each clip, and no back and forth on the heads.

With 5.1.2 it does the same thing, but it appears to me that each clip is separated as its loaded, even though the tape never stops. Same end result, only better. Or, it could be that's an HDV thing. Anyway, it makes using the camera for a deck a hell of a lot less painful. Think about an hour tape...there might be 50 individual takes or more. For every take you would play to locate it, back up to set your in point, go forward for your out point, and then when it captured it would rewind, play to the in point, stop and recue, then play to the outpoint, stop and recue, and do that for all 50 takes.

With this system the camera only plays through one time, cueing at the beginning and the end.

In fact, the tape I captured over the weekend, I set an in point and did Capture Now, thinking I'd just hit stop when it got near the end of the last take. I forgot about it, but the system is smarter than I am. It stopped automatically at the end of the last take. I had thought it would capture 20 minutes of snow. FCP works very well with the Canon and its 24p mode.

I did my first HDV edit over the weekend. It was a hand held, quick and dirty, no lights, shot at +6 db set of interviews with Billy Bob Thornton, Virginia Madsen and the Polish Brothers. I think a small, low res version is up now on hollywoodbitchslap.com (part of efilmcritic.com) but I don't have the exact url. Anyway, I captured the footage as above, edited it very quickly into a 24p timeline. It was just like editing DV. FCP's color effects are real time, but dissolves and titles are not. Then before exporting I hit Render All, and it said something like Conforming HDV, and it rendered. Took about 5-10 minutes for a 5-6 minute program, including titles, a cheesy cube spin effect and color correction. I exported as a reference QT, then made letterbox compressions from that. I also authored a quickie DVD. Apparently everything stayed 24p all the way. It's too easy.

Bill Busby · February 12th, 2007, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

...and it would capture as one clip, but then you could turn on the DV...uh, I forget what it's called,...

Avid calls this DV Scene Extraction & works with TOD TC. It doesn't really make "true" clips though... they are sub-clips, basically just pointers to the original media. I'd assume FCP works the same & has a different name for it as well. I always do this after the fact, since there's a limit (forgot how many) you can do while capturing.

Bill

Bill Pryor · February 12th, 2007, 08:16 PM

FCP used to do the same as Avid, but would give you a list of all the clips rather than just pointers. Now, with HDV, it seems to actually drop them in as individual clips. In the past you'd turn down a pointer and there would be all your subclips, but the whole tape would have been loaded as one big clip. I haven't checked this for sure to see what happens if I delete one clip, but the way it looks is that every clip is separate. Magic.

Ibon Olaskoaga · February 13th, 2007, 08:38 AM

I'm planning to buy the A1( pal territory) but I'm a little bit confused about the F mode. Are the recordings in 25F imposible to read well in a Sony deck or the problem only occurs with 24F?

Thanks.

Dom Stevenson · February 13th, 2007, 02:33 PM

Cheers Bill.
I've been earning a living using FCP for the last year and this is the first i've heard of this feature.
Just goes to show how easy it is miss out on the gems inside that box!

Bill Pryor · February 13th, 2007, 02:39 PM

I edited on Avid for many years before I knew about its similar feature. Doesn't matter how long you edit on either one, there's always something new to learn.

Bill Pryor · February 13th, 2007, 02:50 PM

Ibon, my understanding is that every camera's 24p mode is unique. JVC's 24p won't play on a Sony deck and neither will Canon's 24F, which is the same as 24P. JVC wants you to buy a JVC deck, Sony wants you to buy a Sony deck, and Canon doesn't make a deck. This was similar to the early days of DV, when Panasonic's DVCPRO wouldn't play on early Sony decks. Later on, however, there was more compatibility and everybody's DV played on everybody else's deck, although the decks would mostly only record their own brand of DV. Maybe eventually there will be a deck to play JVC 24p, Sony Cinewhatever 24p, Canon's 24f and so on.

February 11th, 2007, 01:45 PM	#1
Adrian Paul Spiteri Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Malta\| Europe Posts: 55	Export through A1 or Deck ? What are you using to transfer video from tape to computer ? Are you transferring it through the A1, another camcorder or a deck?

February 11th, 2007, 04:34 PM	#2
Byron Huskey Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 64	I personally am using the camera itself, as I can't afford a deck. However, I've heard that so far only the Canon line (such as the A1, the HV10/20, or possibly the XH-L1) can output 24F. Correct me if I'm wrong there, but I think that's how things stand so far. __________________ Byron Huskey Rhapsodist Productions "Film as dream, film as music. No art passes our conscience in the way film does, and goes directly to our feelings, deep down into the dark rooms of our souls." - Ingmar Bergman

February 13th, 2007, 08:38 AM	#12
Ibon Olaskoaga Tourist Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1	It is possible to read 25F with any sony deck? I'm planning to buy the A1( pal territory) but I'm a little bit confused about the F mode. Are the recordings in 25F imposible to read well in a Sony deck or the problem only occurs with 24F? Thanks.

February 11th, 2007, 05:54 PM	#3
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	All the Canon HDV cameras can be used as decks for the 24f HDV mode. If you're shooting 60i, allegedly you can use a Sony deck. Shooting 24p in SD mode works on Sony decks. The only thing that does not work on any deck is 24f in HDV, as I understand, so you have to use one of the cameras as a deck. The upcoming HV20 would be a nice thing to have, since it not only will play out your 24p footage, you can also shoot 24p with it.

February 12th, 2007, 12:04 PM	#4
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	We had this discussion only two days ago Adrian. Check out the post "A1 capture options?" I shall be using the A1 and making the most of Final Cut's media manager to minimise the wear and tear on the cameras heads.

February 12th, 2007, 01:15 PM	#5
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	What I've been doing is to set an in point at the head and out point at the end of the tape and capture the whole thing at once. FCP divides it into individual clips automatically, so you eliminate the start-stop-rewind for every clip.

February 12th, 2007, 04:42 PM	#6
Jeremiah McLamb Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 174	Is there any word on a deck from canon that will handle the HD 24f? And on top of that...handle DVCAM size tapes as well..like the new sony deck does http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...p=142&id=84297

February 12th, 2007, 04:50 PM	#7
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	HEY Bill. Are you talking about Batch capture? Is this method timecode reliant? Haven't heard of such a workflow in FCP, but it sounds like just what i need. Can you give me more info of how it works. I like batch capture but its tough on the heads and often doesn't work. I often end up using capture now which i'm told can cause out of sync behaviour though its always been fine for me. Dom

February 12th, 2007, 07:18 PM	#9
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	In the earlier version of FCP you could capture the whole tape, and it would capture as one clip, but then you could turn on the DV...uh, I forget what it's called, but it would show you separate clips for every time the camera turned on; ie., it would recognize time code breaks. Then you could label each one if you wanted. It made capture faster because you don't go through each clip, and no back and forth on the heads. With 5.1.2 it does the same thing, but it appears to me that each clip is separated as its loaded, even though the tape never stops. Same end result, only better. Or, it could be that's an HDV thing. Anyway, it makes using the camera for a deck a hell of a lot less painful. Think about an hour tape...there might be 50 individual takes or more. For every take you would play to locate it, back up to set your in point, go forward for your out point, and then when it captured it would rewind, play to the in point, stop and recue, then play to the outpoint, stop and recue, and do that for all 50 takes. With this system the camera only plays through one time, cueing at the beginning and the end. In fact, the tape I captured over the weekend, I set an in point and did Capture Now, thinking I'd just hit stop when it got near the end of the last take. I forgot about it, but the system is smarter than I am. It stopped automatically at the end of the last take. I had thought it would capture 20 minutes of snow. FCP works very well with the Canon and its 24p mode. I did my first HDV edit over the weekend. It was a hand held, quick and dirty, no lights, shot at +6 db set of interviews with Billy Bob Thornton, Virginia Madsen and the Polish Brothers. I think a small, low res version is up now on hollywoodbitchslap.com (part of efilmcritic.com) but I don't have the exact url. Anyway, I captured the footage as above, edited it very quickly into a 24p timeline. It was just like editing DV. FCP's color effects are real time, but dissolves and titles are not. Then before exporting I hit Render All, and it said something like Conforming HDV, and it rendered. Took about 5-10 minutes for a 5-6 minute program, including titles, a cheesy cube spin effect and color correction. I exported as a reference QT, then made letterbox compressions from that. I also authored a quickie DVD. Apparently everything stayed 24p all the way. It's too easy.

February 12th, 2007, 08:16 PM	#11
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	FCP used to do the same as Avid, but would give you a list of all the clips rather than just pointers. Now, with HDV, it seems to actually drop them in as individual clips. In the past you'd turn down a pointer and there would be all your subclips, but the whole tape would have been loaded as one big clip. I haven't checked this for sure to see what happens if I delete one clip, but the way it looks is that every clip is separate. Magic.

February 13th, 2007, 02:33 PM	#13
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	Cheers Bill. I've been earning a living using FCP for the last year and this is the first i've heard of this feature. Just goes to show how easy it is miss out on the gems inside that box!

February 13th, 2007, 02:39 PM	#14
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I edited on Avid for many years before I knew about its similar feature. Doesn't matter how long you edit on either one, there's always something new to learn.

February 13th, 2007, 02:50 PM	#15
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Ibon, my understanding is that every camera's 24p mode is unique. JVC's 24p won't play on a Sony deck and neither will Canon's 24F, which is the same as 24P. JVC wants you to buy a JVC deck, Sony wants you to buy a Sony deck, and Canon doesn't make a deck. This was similar to the early days of DV, when Panasonic's DVCPRO wouldn't play on early Sony decks. Later on, however, there was more compatibility and everybody's DV played on everybody else's deck, although the decks would mostly only record their own brand of DV. Maybe eventually there will be a deck to play JVC 24p, Sony Cinewhatever 24p, Canon's 24f and so on.