Tapes-What are YOU using? at DVinfo.net

Alastair Brown · February 5th, 2007, 04:42 PM

Haven't seen anybody mention tapes specifically.

Anybody got any pearls of wisdom on whats good and whats not?

I'll ask the dumb question. Are HDV tapes actually any different to normal DV tapes?

Jeff Nelson · February 5th, 2007, 05:02 PM

From all I've read, yes, you want an HDV tape rather than plain old DV. The logic goes that different tapes have different lubrication systems, and by mixing tapes and differing lube systems you run the risk of clogging heads, and a dropout which could result from this is a half second long due to the gop structure of HDV compression, so don't chance it, keep to one type of high quality tape.

I shot a lot of DV tapes with the Z1, never had a problem -- but that was a rental camera! I'm only shooting the Sony HD Video tapes with my A-1.

Josh Dahlberg · February 5th, 2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Nelson

The logic goes that different tapes have different lubrication systems, and by mixing tapes and differing lube systems you run the risk of clogging heads

That's true, but by 'different tapes' you mean different brands rather than different formats (DV/HDV), right? I suspect 'HDV' tapes are merely high end DV tapes which you pay a premium for due to the 'HDV' labeling. As such, a high end DV tape like Panasonics AMQ is likely to be just as good at less cost. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

I use Panasonic MQ's in my A1 and H1 and have never had a drop-out to date. These can be bought for less than half the cost of 'HDV' tape so I'd love to know what I'm missing out on.

Josh Chesarek · February 5th, 2007, 05:23 PM

Just been using the Sony HDV tapes from B&H.

Ignacio Artiñano · February 5th, 2007, 06:50 PM

I've just used Panasonic DVC Professional AY-DVM60XJ. No problem in the first 10 tapes. I'll continue to use them.

Edward Randolph · February 6th, 2007, 02:12 AM

Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ, $4 each on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-AY-D...&s=electronics
I've using them in 3 different cameras for 4 years and no problems.
They work fine in my XH-A1.
They are a "dry lube" tape.

Even Solberg · February 6th, 2007, 10:52 AM

Sony DVM-63HD
Expensive, maybe, but very good.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Bill Pryor · February 6th, 2007, 12:04 PM

I've been using Panasonic AMQ (Advanced Master Quality) with no trouble. Brian at Zotz recommend them, saying he had sold a lot to XL H1 customers, and they are having great success with them.

If somebody convinced me those Sonys were better, I'd go for them because there's only about $2.50 price difference. I've always used Sony DVCAM tapes for our DVCAMS, but it seems that lots of Canon users have been using Panasonic tapes, so I decided to give them a try. Sony makes very similar claims for its DVCAM tapes, and it appears to me these are probably about the same. I'm sure they're good quality tapes--I never had any trouble at all with DVCAM tapes.

Here's what they say about Panasonic AMQ tapes. I dunno...all the top quality ones are probably about the same.

eneral Information:
Enhanced Durability for Still Images: A newly developed robust lubricant and a durable diamond-like carbon (DLC) film with extra thickness dramatically boost durability during still frame playback, which places considerable burden on the tape. This rugged durability stands up to the repeated rewinding, fastforwarding and playback of professional editing.

High Output Level: Panasonics advancements to its S-AME (Super Advanced Metal Evaporation) technology have yielded an improved magnetic density. Compared to other brands, the output level has been increased by +1.2dB, resulting in a more precise and secure recording.

Superb Total Performance: This durable tape offers particularly excellent characteristics in regard to dropout, clogging, and still image playback, in comparison with previous Panasonic tapes. It also excels over competitive brand tapes in terms of dropout, signal output, and error rate.

Low Head Wear: With our original dry type lubricant, video head wear is much less compared to other tape brands (-4m after 500H). Also it prevents head clogs and significantly extends head life.

High-Precision Cassette Design: The same ABS resin that gives data tape cassettes their superb reliability, high-precision molding, tough impact resistance and durability is used in AMQ Series cassettes. An anti-static treatment for the cassette lid repels dust contaminants and minimizes dropouts.

Alastair Brown · February 6th, 2007, 03:14 PM

I'm still not really sure. It's like car advertising. Lots of important sounding words and important sounding tag lines to convince us that we should all be buying Brand X!

I work in manufacturing and I know that in many places the same product shoots along the line and then, they change to manufacturing for another customer. EXACT same product but the price on the box is double. Thats standard in a LOT of industries.

The old saying say your price and keep a straight face springs to mind.

I also heard that awhile back, only three companies made ALL the lasers for every CD Player regardless of brand.

I can buy a DVD Player now for $18. Blu-Ray players $750. Does that Blu laser REALLY cost that much more to make.

I am now rambling utterly and will shut up!

Bill Pryor · February 6th, 2007, 03:23 PM

Lots of products are the same but with different packaging. The Cadillac Escalade is a Chevy Suburban but with different cosmetics. Back years ago when there were still lots of things made in this country, there was only one manufacturer of tennis balls, regardless of brand. The only difference was the thickness of the cloth covers; I know, I shot at the plant. On another shoot, at a big battery manufacturing facility, the same batteries would go down the line, and periodically it would stop and they'd switch over to putting Sears covers on the same batteries that were going to Sears. Our tape supplier told me that DVCAM tape all came from the same sheet of DV tape, but the good stuff was cut more toward the center, where things were more precise and less prone to dirt and stuff.

Back in the 2" and 1" tape days (they overlapped for some years), production and dub houses bought "pallet" stock for making dubs and "mastering" stock for editing. Pallet stock was called pallet stock because it was shipped in on pallets and off loaded from trucks with forklifts. A big pallet of 2" tape weighed a few hundred pounds and was probably equivalent in running time to a 10-tape box of DVCAM tapes. Anyway, the only difference between pallet stock and mastering stock was the number of times per running meter the tape was inspected by the auto inspection equipment. Mastering stock could be depended on to have fewer dropouts per meter than the cheaper stuff. It's reasonably logical to assume the same holds true today between the el cheapo tapes and the top quality stuff from each manufacturer.

February 5th, 2007, 04:42 PM	#1
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Tapes-What are YOU using? Haven't seen anybody mention tapes specifically. Anybody got any pearls of wisdom on whats good and whats not? I'll ask the dumb question. Are HDV tapes actually any different to normal DV tapes?

February 5th, 2007, 05:23 PM	#4
Josh Chesarek Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 978	Just been using the Sony HDV tapes from B&H. __________________ Simple Thought Productions - Life @ 30,000 Words per second

February 5th, 2007, 06:50 PM	#5
Ignacio Artiñano Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Madrid/Spain Posts: 44	I've just used Panasonic DVC Professional AY-DVM60XJ. No problem in the first 10 tapes. I'll continue to use them. __________________ Ignacio Artiñano

February 6th, 2007, 02:12 AM	#6
Edward Randolph New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Sedona, AZ Posts: 20	Tapes Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ, $4 each on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-AY-D...&s=electronics I've using them in 3 different cameras for 4 years and no problems. They work fine in my XH-A1. They are a "dry lube" tape.

February 6th, 2007, 10:52 AM	#7
Even Solberg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 106	Sony DVM-63HD Expensive, maybe, but very good. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation __________________ "Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- Edgar Allan Poe

February 5th, 2007, 05:02 PM	#2
Jeff Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 194	From all I've read, yes, you want an HDV tape rather than plain old DV. The logic goes that different tapes have different lubrication systems, and by mixing tapes and differing lube systems you run the risk of clogging heads, and a dropout which could result from this is a half second long due to the gop structure of HDV compression, so don't chance it, keep to one type of high quality tape. I shot a lot of DV tapes with the Z1, never had a problem -- but that was a rental camera! I'm only shooting the Sony HD Video tapes with my A-1.

February 6th, 2007, 12:04 PM	#8
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I've been using Panasonic AMQ (Advanced Master Quality) with no trouble. Brian at Zotz recommend them, saying he had sold a lot to XL H1 customers, and they are having great success with them. If somebody convinced me those Sonys were better, I'd go for them because there's only about $2.50 price difference. I've always used Sony DVCAM tapes for our DVCAMS, but it seems that lots of Canon users have been using Panasonic tapes, so I decided to give them a try. Sony makes very similar claims for its DVCAM tapes, and it appears to me these are probably about the same. I'm sure they're good quality tapes--I never had any trouble at all with DVCAM tapes. Here's what they say about Panasonic AMQ tapes. I dunno...all the top quality ones are probably about the same. eneral Information: Enhanced Durability for Still Images: A newly developed robust lubricant and a durable diamond-like carbon (DLC) film with extra thickness dramatically boost durability during still frame playback, which places considerable burden on the tape. This rugged durability stands up to the repeated rewinding, fastforwarding and playback of professional editing. High Output Level: Panasonics advancements to its S-AME (Super Advanced Metal Evaporation) technology have yielded an improved magnetic density. Compared to other brands, the output level has been increased by +1.2dB, resulting in a more precise and secure recording. Superb Total Performance: This durable tape offers particularly excellent characteristics in regard to dropout, clogging, and still image playback, in comparison with previous Panasonic tapes. It also excels over competitive brand tapes in terms of dropout, signal output, and error rate. Low Head Wear: With our original dry type lubricant, video head wear is much less compared to other tape brands (-4m after 500H). Also it prevents head clogs and significantly extends head life. High-Precision Cassette Design: The same ABS resin that gives data tape cassettes their superb reliability, high-precision molding, tough impact resistance and durability is used in AMQ Series cassettes. An anti-static treatment for the cassette lid repels dust contaminants and minimizes dropouts.

February 6th, 2007, 03:14 PM	#9
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	I'm still not really sure. It's like car advertising. Lots of important sounding words and important sounding tag lines to convince us that we should all be buying Brand X! I work in manufacturing and I know that in many places the same product shoots along the line and then, they change to manufacturing for another customer. EXACT same product but the price on the box is double. Thats standard in a LOT of industries. The old saying say your price and keep a straight face springs to mind. I also heard that awhile back, only three companies made ALL the lasers for every CD Player regardless of brand. I can buy a DVD Player now for $18. Blu-Ray players $750. Does that Blu laser REALLY cost that much more to make. I am now rambling utterly and will shut up!

February 6th, 2007, 03:23 PM	#10
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Lots of products are the same but with different packaging. The Cadillac Escalade is a Chevy Suburban but with different cosmetics. Back years ago when there were still lots of things made in this country, there was only one manufacturer of tennis balls, regardless of brand. The only difference was the thickness of the cloth covers; I know, I shot at the plant. On another shoot, at a big battery manufacturing facility, the same batteries would go down the line, and periodically it would stop and they'd switch over to putting Sears covers on the same batteries that were going to Sears. Our tape supplier told me that DVCAM tape all came from the same sheet of DV tape, but the good stuff was cut more toward the center, where things were more precise and less prone to dirt and stuff. Back in the 2" and 1" tape days (they overlapped for some years), production and dub houses bought "pallet" stock for making dubs and "mastering" stock for editing. Pallet stock was called pallet stock because it was shipped in on pallets and off loaded from trucks with forklifts. A big pallet of 2" tape weighed a few hundred pounds and was probably equivalent in running time to a 10-tape box of DVCAM tapes. Anyway, the only difference between pallet stock and mastering stock was the number of times per running meter the tape was inspected by the auto inspection equipment. Mastering stock could be depended on to have fewer dropouts per meter than the cheaper stuff. It's reasonably logical to assume the same holds true today between the el cheapo tapes and the top quality stuff from each manufacturer.