Canon A1 playback on Sony decks? at DVinfo.net

Martin Kornfeld · February 2nd, 2007, 02:16 PM

Just finished a shoot with A1 using standard DV 480i 4x3. Client usually shoots on Betacam as they edit on Betacam but I convinced them to go with A1 which I had recently purchased. They had Beta dubs made at a dub house in NY but they only had Sony decks and they say they had to use a consumer camera to play back tapes and lost original time code due to that.

Forgive me if this is common knowledge for DV but I'm coming from Beta world. I'm really blown away. If the non-playback on Sony decks is true then I would probably would not have purchased the Canon.

Any clarification with this matter is greatly appreciated.

A different issue altogether is client is saying there are audio dropouts and white video flashes on some of the footage. I have used the camera before with no problems.

Thanks, Marty

Mike Teutsch · February 2nd, 2007, 02:19 PM

To the best of my knowledge, if you shoot 4:3 480i DV, it should play back on any DV deck or DV camera.

My JVC HD deck will play DV from my Canon XLH1, but not the HD.

Sounds like someone screwed up.

Mike

Martin Kornfeld · February 2nd, 2007, 02:33 PM

"To the best of my knowledge, if you shoot 4:3 480i DV, it should play back on any DV deck or DV camera."

Does that include Sony dvcam decks?

Mark Finch · February 2nd, 2007, 02:42 PM

A couple of years ago I shot some footage on both a Sony and a Canon - when I played back the tapes on the Sony cam the tape that had been used in the Canon had severe pixelation issues, sound loss etc. But when I played the tape on the Canon everything was fine. For some reason the Sony camcorder ('twas a PD170 if memory serves me right) just did not like the tape shot on the Canon (XL1).

Mike Teutsch · February 2nd, 2007, 02:54 PM

Does not mean that they will all work, because they may be adjusted slightly differently. A camera maybe out of adjustment and still work fine for recording and playback on the same camera. My friend Lorinda has an XL-1s like that. If you shoot it on that camera, you better play it on that camera.

Otherwise, I believe the
DV Spec. is the same on all MiniDV cams and decks.

Mike

Chuck Fadely · February 2nd, 2007, 04:28 PM

XHA1 HDV 1080i60 footage works fine on a Sony M15U dvcam deck here.

Bill Pryor · February 2nd, 2007, 04:38 PM

Sony DVCAM decks will play Canon footage just fine. I've done it a lot.

But if either the camera's heads or the decks heads are misaligned, then the tapes won't play back properly.

If they used a consumer camera to make the dubs, then they did not do it via component-to-component, and the quality is going to suffer. Your client will think they got screwed and you'll be blamed. If you want to, send me one of your tapes, with return shipping envelope, and I'll check it out for you and see if our deck will play it. Often the DSR1800 will play tapes some other decks won't. No charge--I've done that before for another guy on one of the boards who had a head alignment problem. I don't trust dub houses. If you have a head alignment problem, you need to know about it.

Or, you might go somewhere where you live and check it out. You need to find somebody who had a DVCAM deck and Betacam deck with component in and out. All Betacam decks do, all DV/DVCAM decks do not.

Martin Kornfeld · February 2nd, 2007, 04:49 PM

Strange, I looked up some sony dvcam decks on their website and the specs say they support standard dv record and playback. Does anyone know of special settings on sony decks needed to playback dv?

Bill Pryor · February 2nd, 2007, 04:51 PM

There are no special settings. Sony DVCAM decks play back DV just fine. Unless there's a head alignment problem with either the deck or the camera.
DVCAM decks (except for one or two cheaper models) only RECORD in DVCAM. But they play back all varieties of DV, including DV, DVCPRO and DVCAM. They will not play back DV50.

Martin Kornfeld · February 3rd, 2007, 09:57 AM

Thanks all and thanks Bill Pryor for offer. Unfortunately client has tapes in NY, i'm in SF bay area. I'm getting conflicting info from client and their dub house. Camerta plays back fine on itself. I did try another tape on a sony dvcam dsr45 deck locally and it did not play probably. I should probably have my camera checked out though it's virtually brand new.
Should i send to canon, B&H where it was purchased or find local service?

Bill Pryor · February 3rd, 2007, 10:12 AM

In that case, since you've seen that it won't play on a DSR45 and you have reports from elsewhere, I'd say you definitely have a head alignment problem.

Did you sign up for the Canon owner's club? I think that gives you some priority for service. I would definitely send it to them.

BUT FIRST--and this is critical, absolutely critical--you need to find someplace where you can do a firewire dub of all the tapes you've shot BEFORE you get the camera fixed. Once you get the heads properly aligned, you will NOT be able to play the tapes that were recorded when the camera was out of alignment. If you have access to that DSR45, you could dub everything from your camera to DVCAM tapes and you'll be protected.

Sorry about all the caps for overemphasis, but I've been involved with several people back in the original XL1 days who got their cameras fixed and then discovered their old tapes wouldn't play. So clone your tapes FIRST.

David Morgan · February 3rd, 2007, 10:23 AM

I own a Sony DSR-25 deck and the A1. Tapes work fine. This deck will play and or record in either format (DVCAM or mini-dv).
Did u set the timecode up in the Canon before shooting? There are several choices.

Martin Kornfeld · February 3rd, 2007, 10:30 AM

Thanks, will do. I'm in the club and will contact immediately and dub first.

Miguel Lombana · February 3rd, 2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kornfeld

Just finished a shoot with A1 using standard DV 480i 4x3. Client usually shoots on Betacam as they edit on Betacam but I convinced them to go with A1 which I had recently purchased. They had Beta dubs made at a dub house in NY but they only had Sony decks and they say they had to use a consumer camera to play back tapes and lost original time code due to that.

Forgive me if this is common knowledge for DV but I'm coming from Beta world. I'm really blown away. If the non-playback on Sony decks is true then I would probably would not have purchased the Canon.

Any clarification with this matter is greatly appreciated.

A different issue altogether is client is saying there are audio dropouts and white video flashes on some of the footage. I have used the camera before with no problems.

Thanks, Marty

Gotta tell you but I'm miffed about this, I have an H1 and my playback deck is a Sony M15u and I gotta tell ya, no problem at all playing back MiniDV from my XL2 SD or HDV from my A1 or HDV from my Sony HC1, in fact the M15u deck will display camera information such as aperture and frame rate and down convert to SD as well. Sounds to me that they are feeding you a bunch of hooey or didn't try very hard to get the tapes ingested.

Martin Kornfeld · February 3rd, 2007, 10:59 AM

I'm on the phone with canon now. unbelievable experience so far. woman seems she could not care less. says it's the other decks problem, says if i send in up to 15 days turnaround. explained to her that i'm not some hobbyist but a professional and that's not acceptable. waiting to speak to a higher up. . .will keep posted.

February 2nd, 2007, 02:16 PM	#1
Martin Kornfeld Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 49	Canon A1 playback on Sony decks? Just finished a shoot with A1 using standard DV 480i 4x3. Client usually shoots on Betacam as they edit on Betacam but I convinced them to go with A1 which I had recently purchased. They had Beta dubs made at a dub house in NY but they only had Sony decks and they say they had to use a consumer camera to play back tapes and lost original time code due to that. Forgive me if this is common knowledge for DV but I'm coming from Beta world. I'm really blown away. If the non-playback on Sony decks is true then I would probably would not have purchased the Canon. Any clarification with this matter is greatly appreciated. A different issue altogether is client is saying there are audio dropouts and white video flashes on some of the footage. I have used the camera before with no problems. Thanks, Marty

February 2nd, 2007, 02:19 PM	#2
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	To the best of my knowledge, if you shoot 4:3 480i DV, it should play back on any DV deck or DV camera. My JVC HD deck will play DV from my Canon XLH1, but not the HD. Sounds like someone screwed up. Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

February 2nd, 2007, 02:54 PM	#5
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	Does not mean that they will all work, because they may be adjusted slightly differently. A camera maybe out of adjustment and still work fine for recording and playback on the same camera. My friend Lorinda has an XL-1s like that. If you shoot it on that camera, you better play it on that camera. Otherwise, I believe the DV Spec. is the same on all MiniDV cams and decks. Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

February 3rd, 2007, 10:23 AM	#12
David Morgan Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Burbank CA Posts: 466	No problem here I own a Sony DSR-25 deck and the A1. Tapes work fine. This deck will play and or record in either format (DVCAM or mini-dv). Did u set the timecode up in the Canon before shooting? There are several choices.

February 2nd, 2007, 02:33 PM	#3
Martin Kornfeld Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 49	"To the best of my knowledge, if you shoot 4:3 480i DV, it should play back on any DV deck or DV camera." Does that include Sony dvcam decks?

February 2nd, 2007, 02:42 PM	#4
Mark Finch New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London, United Kingdom Posts: 9	A couple of years ago I shot some footage on both a Sony and a Canon - when I played back the tapes on the Sony cam the tape that had been used in the Canon had severe pixelation issues, sound loss etc. But when I played the tape on the Canon everything was fine. For some reason the Sony camcorder ('twas a PD170 if memory serves me right) just did not like the tape shot on the Canon (XL1).

February 2nd, 2007, 04:28 PM	#6
Chuck Fadely Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: United States Posts: 306	XHA1 HDV 1080i60 footage works fine on a Sony M15U dvcam deck here.

February 2nd, 2007, 04:38 PM	#7
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Sony DVCAM decks will play Canon footage just fine. I've done it a lot. But if either the camera's heads or the decks heads are misaligned, then the tapes won't play back properly. If they used a consumer camera to make the dubs, then they did not do it via component-to-component, and the quality is going to suffer. Your client will think they got screwed and you'll be blamed. If you want to, send me one of your tapes, with return shipping envelope, and I'll check it out for you and see if our deck will play it. Often the DSR1800 will play tapes some other decks won't. No charge--I've done that before for another guy on one of the boards who had a head alignment problem. I don't trust dub houses. If you have a head alignment problem, you need to know about it. Or, you might go somewhere where you live and check it out. You need to find somebody who had a DVCAM deck and Betacam deck with component in and out. All Betacam decks do, all DV/DVCAM decks do not.

February 2nd, 2007, 04:49 PM	#8
Martin Kornfeld Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 49	Strange, I looked up some sony dvcam decks on their website and the specs say they support standard dv record and playback. Does anyone know of special settings on sony decks needed to playback dv?

February 2nd, 2007, 04:51 PM	#9
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	There are no special settings. Sony DVCAM decks play back DV just fine. Unless there's a head alignment problem with either the deck or the camera. DVCAM decks (except for one or two cheaper models) only RECORD in DVCAM. But they play back all varieties of DV, including DV, DVCPRO and DVCAM. They will not play back DV50.

February 3rd, 2007, 09:57 AM	#10
Martin Kornfeld Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 49	Thanks all and thanks Bill Pryor for offer. Unfortunately client has tapes in NY, i'm in SF bay area. I'm getting conflicting info from client and their dub house. Camerta plays back fine on itself. I did try another tape on a sony dvcam dsr45 deck locally and it did not play probably. I should probably have my camera checked out though it's virtually brand new. Should i send to canon, B&H where it was purchased or find local service?

February 3rd, 2007, 10:12 AM	#11
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	In that case, since you've seen that it won't play on a DSR45 and you have reports from elsewhere, I'd say you definitely have a head alignment problem. Did you sign up for the Canon owner's club? I think that gives you some priority for service. I would definitely send it to them. BUT FIRST--and this is critical, absolutely critical--you need to find someplace where you can do a firewire dub of all the tapes you've shot BEFORE you get the camera fixed. Once you get the heads properly aligned, you will NOT be able to play the tapes that were recorded when the camera was out of alignment. If you have access to that DSR45, you could dub everything from your camera to DVCAM tapes and you'll be protected. Sorry about all the caps for overemphasis, but I've been involved with several people back in the original XL1 days who got their cameras fixed and then discovered their old tapes wouldn't play. So clone your tapes FIRST.

February 3rd, 2007, 10:30 AM	#13
Martin Kornfeld Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 49	Thanks, will do. I'm in the club and will contact immediately and dub first.

February 3rd, 2007, 10:59 AM	#15
Martin Kornfeld Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 49	I'm on the phone with canon now. unbelievable experience so far. woman seems she could not care less. says it's the other decks problem, says if i send in up to 15 days turnaround. explained to her that i'm not some hobbyist but a professional and that's not acceptable. waiting to speak to a higher up. . .will keep posted.