Is it possible to torque the XH-A1 frame and misalign the tape transport? at DVinfo.net

Ken Boyer · February 1st, 2007, 06:05 PM

Last weekend, I recorded a Yoga Workshop – over 12 hours of video. During the first capture I had no problems. Today, the camera appeared to be playing. But it was only displaying a blue screen with no time elapsing. If I fast-forward or back, the time jumped forward or back, but still showed blue screen. Every tape - even the first one!

I was frustrated to say the least. I calmed myself down and tried to think; what was different?

When I recorded the workshop and during the first capture sessions, the camera was mounted on the tripod. Today, it was un-mounted and sitting on my desk.

I thought: no way! But I tried it. I mounted the camera to my tripod (the tripod head is a Bogen 503) and now it is playing. There are some dropouts now, which I didn't see before.

Please tell me that I am wrong. Mounting it can't torque the camera frame and misalign the tape transport and camera's recording head. Can it???

Ken

Tom Roper · February 1st, 2007, 06:10 PM

Gee I don't know but I have at times thought I didn't need to put as much torque as I was giving it, but so far no harm done. I will be mindful of this going forward.

Did you try a cleaning tape?

Ken Boyer · February 1st, 2007, 06:17 PM

Tom,

Yes, cleaning it was the first thing that I tried.

It was still mounted to the Bogen 503 quick release plate when I had it sitting on my desk. Only when I reattached it to the tripod head did it start working again.

Thanks,

Ken

Matthew Nayman · February 1st, 2007, 06:34 PM

Ken, hat you got is called a gremlin...

Could it be that the angle of the firewire connection is different between desk and tripod? Try a new cable.

I highly doubt you could misalign by tightening tripod...

Tom Roper · February 1st, 2007, 06:35 PM

Well that's very odd. I have the same bogen quick release plate. There should be no difference in the stress on the camera body on or off the tripod if the quick release plate is mounted.

That makes me doubt it was torque on the screw causing the problem.

Peter Jefferson · February 1st, 2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

Ken, hat you got is called a gremlin...

Could it be that the angle of the firewire connection is different between desk and tripod? Try a new cable.

I highly doubt you could misalign by tightening tripod...

what he said...

Ken Boyer · February 1st, 2007, 07:03 PM

Mathew,

The cable was not a factor. The problem was the same even when just trying to playback while not tethered to the computer.

When I lock down the mounting plate, the locking cam does put torque on the plate. The distance between the screw and the alignment stud is short. But the plate does torque a little over it's length.

Like I said, I don't believe it (and I don't want to believe it) but mounting the camera back in the tripod is the only way the tapes will play back.

Ken

Matthew Nayman · February 1st, 2007, 07:34 PM

It's honestly impossible...

There must be some other factor at work here... wanna post some pics of the tripod setup?

There should be no more tourque on the camera when you tighten the plate to the head, than when you simply tighten the plate to the camera...

Did you drop or bang the camera at somepoint? I am wondering, how far apart is your desk and your tripod? Could some electrical interference on your desk be responsible, and when put on the tripod, further away, it is gone?

Have you tried different rooms? Are you sure you're not just having a major coincidence with the cam not working ONLY when its off tripod by fluke?

BTW, Sitka Alaska? Cool. I fly there often in Flight Sim X and been there on a real bush flight. Beautiful Area.

Tom Roper · February 1st, 2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Boyer

Mathew,

The cable was not a factor. The problem was the same even when just trying to playback while not tethered to the computer.

When I lock down the mounting plate, the locking cam does put torque on the plate. The distance between the screw and the alignment stud is short. But the plate does torque a little over it's length.

Like I said, I don't believe it (and I don't want to believe it) but mounting the camera back in the tripod is the only way the tapes will play back.

Ken

Can you loosen the threaded alignment stud so it's not bottoming on the camera?

Ken Boyer · February 1st, 2007, 08:26 PM

"Wanna post some pics of the tripod setup?" There is nothing special about it.

"Did you drop or bang the camera at some point?" No.

"When put on the tripod, further away, it is gone?" No

"Have you tried different rooms?" Yes, my living room.

"Are you sure you're not just having a major coincidence with the cam not working ONLY when its off tripod by fluke?" The camera does work off the tripod. This playback problem appears to be only with the tapes that were done while the camera was mounted on the tripod this last weekend.

The camera still records and plays back handheld ok. Older handheld tape plays ok. SD from my old camera plays ok.

It seems that to play back last weekends tapes - I have to recreate the mounting condition in which they were made...

Tom,

I don't think the alignment stud is bottoming out. But, I will drop it down a little bit and test the record/playback both mounted and un-mounted to see if that helps.

Thanks for all the questions and suggestions...

Ken

Tom Roper · February 1st, 2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Boyer

The distance between the screw and the alignment stud is short. But the plate does torque a little over it's length.

The observation above is why I held out the possibility that the threaded alignment stud was bottoming in the dowel hole of the camera body. Why else would the plate be torquing over its length?

Ken Boyer · February 2nd, 2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

The observation above is why I held out the possibility that the threaded alignment stud was bottoming in the dowel hole of the camera body. Why else would the plate be torquing over its length?

The plate is dove-tailed full length with the locking cam forward on the right side - I don't know...

Ken

Ken Boyer · February 2nd, 2007, 06:16 PM

Today, after less than 24 hours after I notified them, I received two responses from Canon. One by e-mail - a fairly typical canned response-saying send it to our service center for evaluation and a determination of warranty coverage. That it is possible that I may have over-torqued the mounting screw. (I doubt it, it was less than a 1/8 turn past finger tight.)

The second was from my regional Canon rep. He spoke with senior repair technicians and none of them have heard of this problem. It appears to be an isolated case. They theorize that maybe an internal screw in the frame or tape transport mechanism somehow got left out during manufacture.

The most important thing is that Canon was very quick to respond. And better yet, my regional Canon rep is taking this very seriously with no second-guessing. He is arranging to very quickly get this taken care.

Thank you everyone for listening, the questions, and all of your suggestions.

Sincerely,

Ken Boyer

Kathy Stannard · June 16th, 2007, 02:51 PM

I know this is old, but I'm curious to know what the outcome was.

Thanks.

Wynn Bradford · June 16th, 2007, 10:10 PM

Ken would you, if you get a chance put one of the tapes in another A1 and see if it plays...I think this would go a long way in the discovery of the problem. The problem may be other than the actual recording but a cold solder joint or ribbon cable just making connection. Just a thought.

Wynn Bradford

February 1st, 2007, 06:05 PM	#1
Ken Boyer New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sitka, Alaska Posts: 12	Is it possible to torque the XH-A1 frame and misalign the tape transport? Last weekend, I recorded a Yoga Workshop – over 12 hours of video. During the first capture I had no problems. Today, the camera appeared to be playing. But it was only displaying a blue screen with no time elapsing. If I fast-forward or back, the time jumped forward or back, but still showed blue screen. Every tape - even the first one! I was frustrated to say the least. I calmed myself down and tried to think; what was different? When I recorded the workshop and during the first capture sessions, the camera was mounted on the tripod. Today, it was un-mounted and sitting on my desk. I thought: no way! But I tried it. I mounted the camera to my tripod (the tripod head is a Bogen 503) and now it is playing. There are some dropouts now, which I didn't see before. Please tell me that I am wrong. Mounting it can't torque the camera frame and misalign the tape transport and camera's recording head. Can it??? Ken

February 1st, 2007, 06:17 PM	#3
Ken Boyer New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sitka, Alaska Posts: 12	Cleaning it was the first thing I tried... Tom, Yes, cleaning it was the first thing that I tried. It was still mounted to the Bogen 503 quick release plate when I had it sitting on my desk. Only when I reattached it to the tripod head did it start working again. Thanks, Ken

February 1st, 2007, 07:03 PM	#7
Ken Boyer New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sitka, Alaska Posts: 12	Same problem whether attached to computer or not Mathew, The cable was not a factor. The problem was the same even when just trying to playback while not tethered to the computer. When I lock down the mounting plate, the locking cam does put torque on the plate. The distance between the screw and the alignment stud is short. But the plate does torque a little over it's length. Like I said, I don't believe it (and I don't want to believe it) but mounting the camera back in the tripod is the only way the tapes will play back. Ken

February 1st, 2007, 08:26 PM	#10
Ken Boyer New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sitka, Alaska Posts: 12	Answers for Mathew & Tom "Wanna post some pics of the tripod setup?" There is nothing special about it. "Did you drop or bang the camera at some point?" No. "When put on the tripod, further away, it is gone?" No "Have you tried different rooms?" Yes, my living room. "Are you sure you're not just having a major coincidence with the cam not working ONLY when its off tripod by fluke?" The camera does work off the tripod. This playback problem appears to be only with the tapes that were done while the camera was mounted on the tripod this last weekend. The camera still records and plays back handheld ok. Older handheld tape plays ok. SD from my old camera plays ok. It seems that to play back last weekends tapes - I have to recreate the mounting condition in which they were made... Tom, I don't think the alignment stud is bottoming out. But, I will drop it down a little bit and test the record/playback both mounted and un-mounted to see if that helps. Thanks for all the questions and suggestions... Ken

February 2nd, 2007, 06:16 PM	#13
Ken Boyer New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sitka, Alaska Posts: 12	Canon contacted me to take care of this Today, after less than 24 hours after I notified them, I received two responses from Canon. One by e-mail - a fairly typical canned response-saying send it to our service center for evaluation and a determination of warranty coverage. That it is possible that I may have over-torqued the mounting screw. (I doubt it, it was less than a 1/8 turn past finger tight.) The second was from my regional Canon rep. He spoke with senior repair technicians and none of them have heard of this problem. It appears to be an isolated case. They theorize that maybe an internal screw in the frame or tape transport mechanism somehow got left out during manufacture. The most important thing is that Canon was very quick to respond. And better yet, my regional Canon rep is taking this very seriously with no second-guessing. He is arranging to very quickly get this taken care. Thank you everyone for listening, the questions, and all of your suggestions. Sincerely, Ken Boyer

February 1st, 2007, 06:10 PM	#2
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Gee I don't know but I have at times thought I didn't need to put as much torque as I was giving it, but so far no harm done. I will be mindful of this going forward. Did you try a cleaning tape?

February 1st, 2007, 06:34 PM	#4
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Ken, hat you got is called a gremlin... Could it be that the angle of the firewire connection is different between desk and tripod? Try a new cable. I highly doubt you could misalign by tightening tripod...

February 1st, 2007, 06:35 PM	#5
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Well that's very odd. I have the same bogen quick release plate. There should be no difference in the stress on the camera body on or off the tripod if the quick release plate is mounted. That makes me doubt it was torque on the screw causing the problem.

February 1st, 2007, 07:34 PM	#8
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	It's honestly impossible... There must be some other factor at work here... wanna post some pics of the tripod setup? There should be no more tourque on the camera when you tighten the plate to the head, than when you simply tighten the plate to the camera... Did you drop or bang the camera at somepoint? I am wondering, how far apart is your desk and your tripod? Could some electrical interference on your desk be responsible, and when put on the tripod, further away, it is gone? Have you tried different rooms? Are you sure you're not just having a major coincidence with the cam not working ONLY when its off tripod by fluke? BTW, Sitka Alaska? Cool. I fly there often in Flight Sim X and been there on a real bush flight. Beautiful Area.

June 16th, 2007, 02:51 PM	#14
Kathy Stannard Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London Posts: 35	I know this is old, but I'm curious to know what the outcome was. Thanks.

June 16th, 2007, 10:10 PM	#15
Wynn Bradford New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 17	Hmmmm Maybe? Ken would you, if you get a chance put one of the tapes in another A1 and see if it plays...I think this would go a long way in the discovery of the problem. The problem may be other than the actual recording but a cold solder joint or ribbon cable just making connection. Just a thought. Wynn Bradford