HV10 as B-roll for A1? at DVinfo.net

Matthew Wilson · January 12th, 2007, 02:28 PM

Need to shoot a doc in Feb/March overseas and am seriously thinking about purchasing an A1 and an HV10, as I will need to be very mobile and somewhat inconspicuous at times. The A1 seems to be the best deal for most of what I will be doing, but the HV10 would clearly have some advantage in some places as well. So, I am wondering what people think about cutting footage between it and the HV10? Anyone tried it in 60i and then 24f, knowing that you have to convert the 60i on the HV10 to 24 in post.

Holly Rognan · January 12th, 2007, 02:41 PM

I was thinking of going this route as well. I currently have a GS500 for B-roll, but even when the A1 is downrezzed to SD, the A1 footage is so much more crisp, clean and real.

Bill Pryor · January 12th, 2007, 03:12 PM

I think it's a good idea to have a little touristcam for those situations where you may need to be less conspicuous, or when you don't want to risk the more expensive camera.

The only negative is that the HV10 does not, as I understand it, shoot 24F (although it does play the A1's 24F footage). So you would have to deinterlace and convert the footage from that camera, if you're shooting 24F with the A1.

This is not a big deal, actually. I have some SD interviews already shot before I got the XH A1, and I just dropped a clip into my 24p timeline, and FCP automatically did the pulldown thing. I resized with the motion tool. It's softer but works within the realm of acceptability. With the HV10 you wouldn't have to resized, so you'd just have the pulldown thing. What that does is introduce a bit of judder in the sideways motion, but depending on the shot, it may not be bad. On my interviews, it's not bad at all. An alternative would be to use Nattress or DVFilmmaker or Magic Bullet for that and maybe improve things a little.

Matthew Wilson · January 12th, 2007, 06:45 PM

As well as using for some less conspicuous shooting, I was wondering about using it as a second camera on interviews. Sounds like since they don't usually don't have much motion, the jutter from de-interlacing and converting to 24p would work well.
Any idea about color or picture qualities between the two cams. How close do you think they can be matched. The footage I've seen in the right conditions from the HV10 looks pretty good, but I have no idea what it looks like against the A1 or H1.

Bruce S. Yarock · January 12th, 2007, 10:47 PM

We've done a couple of 3 camera shoots(night concert, exercise video) with the h1, HV10 and Sony FX1. If you're carefull with the exposure on the HV10, it cuts really well with the XLH1.We shot in 60i because I assumed it would be tough to mix 24 or 30 on the H1 with 60 on theHV10 (not to mention the FX1). I'd be curious to hear anyone's results mixing the A1(or H1) shooting 24 0r 30, with 60i on the hV10.
Bruce S. yarock

Bruce S. Yarock · January 12th, 2007, 10:49 PM

Bill,
We edit in Premiere Pro and Cineform. What would be the best method for de interlacing the hv10 footage if we wanted to shoot 24f on the H1?
bruce S. yarock

Bill Pryor · January 13th, 2007, 10:26 AM

Probably something like Nattress, DVFilmmaker or Magic Bullet would do the trick. Most NLEs have good enough color correction tools so you should be able to match both cameras adequately.

I've intercut a DSR500 with a DSR250 and a TRV900. The 500 has 2/3" chips, the 250 has 1/3" chips and the TRV900 is a 1/4" chip camera. I had a sequence of a car driving around at night--I used the 500 for those shots. Then for the interior shots of the driver I used the 250 because of its OIS and wide angle adapter. And then I mounted the TRV900 on the dash, with a beanbag, and shot back at the driver through the steering wheel. While the 900 was softer and grainier than the other 2 cameras, and the 250 was softer than the 500, all the shots worked because each one was so different--I went from an exterior to an interior to a weird angle closeup. You dcan get by with that.

I haven't seen the HV10, but since it's HDV, my guess is it'll be a lot closer to the A1 than my TRV900 was to the DSR500. Generally your guerrilla video touristcam type shots will be quite a bit different from your normal footage, so usually you can make it work. Look at what Clint Eastwood did in "Flags of Our Fathers"--he put Sony Z1 camera inside ammo boxes the grunts were carrying in a battle scene to get shots impossible with 35mm cameras. I'd bet nobody in any audience noticed the difference between 35mm film and 1/3" chip video in that sequence.

Peter Ferling · January 13th, 2007, 12:49 PM

I just shot a small training program last night that required the handling and describing of small parts. I needed some closeups. Instead of wielding the G1, I locked it off for the nice wide shot and used the HV10 for closeups.

The IAF of the HV10 was much quicker than my HC1, which I had to focus manually. I was able to quickly get good focus on each part that will be useful in edits as support.

For straight video, factory settings, I don't see an issue with using the HV10 as a B-cam, including as a cheap deck as well. In this case, renting another A1 wasn't necessary and my arms felt much better after non-stop one-hour shoot.

Matthew Wilson · January 13th, 2007, 04:58 PM

Thanks Peter, that's what I needed to hear. Since I wanted to get an HV10 to use as a deck anyway, it seems that it could be quite a useful camera for just what you've described. I take it you were shooting everything in 60i?

Eric Dyer · January 13th, 2007, 05:01 PM

I bought the HV10 for a deck, and now it's my b-roll cam. I love it, I just used it for a time lapse feature where I used it as a fixed cam. My main cams were a Sony V1u, and an A1. They work well together.

*e

Peter Ferling · January 13th, 2007, 05:47 PM

Matthew, yes, 60i, and at factory settings. I have to be careful how I set up the G1 as I doubt I'll reach it with HV10 footage, even in post.

Bruce S. Yarock · January 14th, 2007, 06:59 AM

I originally bought the HV10 as a deck for viewing and capturing. After a couple of shoots, I realized it was a great camera, and cuts well with the H1. The only problem we had was on a 3 cam exercise video. Our "student" camera op on the third camera (hv10) wasn't watching the exposure, and the hv10 was a little overexposed in program mode (but not horrendously blown out).
We had to do some color correcting to match the Sony FX1 to the Canons. I still haven't been able to get the H1 and FX1 close in look( I had a good preset on my XL2, but it doesn't work on the H1).

Bill,
Have you used any of these as de interlacers? I think that Natress is mac only (we're on PC). I'd be curious to hear about MB or Dv film maker. we tried the one on PPRO, and it looks ok, but not great.
Bruce S. yarock
www.yarock.com

January 12th, 2007, 02:28 PM	#1
Matthew Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 259	HV10 as B-roll for A1? Need to shoot a doc in Feb/March overseas and am seriously thinking about purchasing an A1 and an HV10, as I will need to be very mobile and somewhat inconspicuous at times. The A1 seems to be the best deal for most of what I will be doing, but the HV10 would clearly have some advantage in some places as well. So, I am wondering what people think about cutting footage between it and the HV10? Anyone tried it in 60i and then 24f, knowing that you have to convert the 60i on the HV10 to 24 in post. __________________ MW

January 12th, 2007, 06:45 PM	#4
Matthew Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 259	As well as using for some less conspicuous shooting, I was wondering about using it as a second camera on interviews. Sounds like since they don't usually don't have much motion, the jutter from de-interlacing and converting to 24p would work well. Any idea about color or picture qualities between the two cams. How close do you think they can be matched. The footage I've seen in the right conditions from the HV10 looks pretty good, but I have no idea what it looks like against the A1 or H1. __________________ MW

January 13th, 2007, 04:58 PM	#9
Matthew Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 259	Thanks Peter, that's what I needed to hear. Since I wanted to get an HV10 to use as a deck anyway, it seems that it could be quite a useful camera for just what you've described. I take it you were shooting everything in 60i? __________________ MW

January 12th, 2007, 02:41 PM	#2
Holly Rognan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coalville America Posts: 244	I was thinking of going this route as well. I currently have a GS500 for B-roll, but even when the A1 is downrezzed to SD, the A1 footage is so much more crisp, clean and real.

January 12th, 2007, 03:12 PM	#3
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I think it's a good idea to have a little touristcam for those situations where you may need to be less conspicuous, or when you don't want to risk the more expensive camera. The only negative is that the HV10 does not, as I understand it, shoot 24F (although it does play the A1's 24F footage). So you would have to deinterlace and convert the footage from that camera, if you're shooting 24F with the A1. This is not a big deal, actually. I have some SD interviews already shot before I got the XH A1, and I just dropped a clip into my 24p timeline, and FCP automatically did the pulldown thing. I resized with the motion tool. It's softer but works within the realm of acceptability. With the HV10 you wouldn't have to resized, so you'd just have the pulldown thing. What that does is introduce a bit of judder in the sideways motion, but depending on the shot, it may not be bad. On my interviews, it's not bad at all. An alternative would be to use Nattress or DVFilmmaker or Magic Bullet for that and maybe improve things a little.

January 12th, 2007, 10:47 PM	#5
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	We've done a couple of 3 camera shoots(night concert, exercise video) with the h1, HV10 and Sony FX1. If you're carefull with the exposure on the HV10, it cuts really well with the XLH1.We shot in 60i because I assumed it would be tough to mix 24 or 30 on the H1 with 60 on theHV10 (not to mention the FX1). I'd be curious to hear anyone's results mixing the A1(or H1) shooting 24 0r 30, with 60i on the hV10. Bruce S. yarock

January 12th, 2007, 10:49 PM	#6
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	Bill, We edit in Premiere Pro and Cineform. What would be the best method for de interlacing the hv10 footage if we wanted to shoot 24f on the H1? bruce S. yarock

January 13th, 2007, 10:26 AM	#7
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Probably something like Nattress, DVFilmmaker or Magic Bullet would do the trick. Most NLEs have good enough color correction tools so you should be able to match both cameras adequately. I've intercut a DSR500 with a DSR250 and a TRV900. The 500 has 2/3" chips, the 250 has 1/3" chips and the TRV900 is a 1/4" chip camera. I had a sequence of a car driving around at night--I used the 500 for those shots. Then for the interior shots of the driver I used the 250 because of its OIS and wide angle adapter. And then I mounted the TRV900 on the dash, with a beanbag, and shot back at the driver through the steering wheel. While the 900 was softer and grainier than the other 2 cameras, and the 250 was softer than the 500, all the shots worked because each one was so different--I went from an exterior to an interior to a weird angle closeup. You dcan get by with that. I haven't seen the HV10, but since it's HDV, my guess is it'll be a lot closer to the A1 than my TRV900 was to the DSR500. Generally your guerrilla video touristcam type shots will be quite a bit different from your normal footage, so usually you can make it work. Look at what Clint Eastwood did in "Flags of Our Fathers"--he put Sony Z1 camera inside ammo boxes the grunts were carrying in a battle scene to get shots impossible with 35mm cameras. I'd bet nobody in any audience noticed the difference between 35mm film and 1/3" chip video in that sequence.

January 13th, 2007, 12:49 PM	#8
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	I just shot a small training program last night that required the handling and describing of small parts. I needed some closeups. Instead of wielding the G1, I locked it off for the nice wide shot and used the HV10 for closeups. The IAF of the HV10 was much quicker than my HC1, which I had to focus manually. I was able to quickly get good focus on each part that will be useful in edits as support. For straight video, factory settings, I don't see an issue with using the HV10 as a B-cam, including as a cheap deck as well. In this case, renting another A1 wasn't necessary and my arms felt much better after non-stop one-hour shoot.

January 13th, 2007, 05:01 PM	#10
Eric Dyer Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: CA Posts: 55	I bought the HV10 for a deck, and now it's my b-roll cam. I love it, I just used it for a time lapse feature where I used it as a fixed cam. My main cams were a Sony V1u, and an A1. They work well together. *e

January 13th, 2007, 05:47 PM	#11
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Matthew, yes, 60i, and at factory settings. I have to be careful how I set up the G1 as I doubt I'll reach it with HV10 footage, even in post.

January 14th, 2007, 06:59 AM	#12
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	I originally bought the HV10 as a deck for viewing and capturing. After a couple of shoots, I realized it was a great camera, and cuts well with the H1. The only problem we had was on a 3 cam exercise video. Our "student" camera op on the third camera (hv10) wasn't watching the exposure, and the hv10 was a little overexposed in program mode (but not horrendously blown out). We had to do some color correcting to match the Sony FX1 to the Canons. I still haven't been able to get the H1 and FX1 close in look( I had a good preset on my XL2, but it doesn't work on the H1). Bill, Have you used any of these as de interlacers? I think that Natress is mac only (we're on PC). I'd be curious to hear about MB or Dv film maker. we tried the one on PPRO, and it looks ok, but not great. Bruce S. yarock www.yarock.com