Sharpness Settings on XH A1 = ?

Michael Mann · January 3rd, 2007, 01:48 PM

Thanks, Che and Alex!

I guess I will do some test shots at -9 and 0, add sharpening in Vegas and compare these with native A1 footage at +6.

Bill Pryor · January 3rd, 2007, 04:19 PM

I've been using the No. 1 Cine setting, and I took the sharpness down a -2, I think, and pressed the black just a little. Looks great.

Raymond Toussaint · January 3rd, 2007, 05:39 PM

I like to keep sharpness at 0 or at -3. I think its too video-ish if you keep it all up.

Che Butterfield · January 8th, 2007, 09:41 PM

Did some shooting over the weekend. Got some wonderful stuff and plan on posting it soon. I wanted to share some more about my experiences with sharpness and the A1. After much testing I decided to shoot with sharpness at -9 so I could tweak it in post. That way I wouldn't have to deal with a sharpness setting burned into my footage. Well it sounded good at the time but I got back and started importing into Final Cut and found that everything was soft. The strange thing, though, is that on my HD monitor, straight out of the camera, the same images are tack sharp. I thought there was a setting wrong in FCP but to my dismay the footage was importing soft in HDxDV as well. So, I thought I would go ahead and sharpen in FCP. It helped, but not without adding extra grain.

Later I did some camera tests at home and found that 0 sharpening does indeed look good in FCP and not too sharp either. What I deduce is that FCP is sharpening not only the original image but also any compression artifacts while the camera does its sharpening before laying to tape.

I still stand by sharpening only in post, just not with HDV. The format is too noisy and the compression is too lossy to withstand any sort of post sharpening. HDCam I would sharpen in post, DVCProHD I would attempt to sharpen in post but from my experience with HDV I'll let the camera do the heavy lifting there.

Below is the results of my tests. Cam set at:

-3dB
24p
1/48 Shutter
6.7f
3200K
-2 Setup
-1 Pedestal
Normal Gamma
Low Knee
Middle Black

Full res (1920x1080) FCP still frames are here:

http://www.chebutterfield.com/A1Shar...essSamples.zip

There are 4 files with the only changes between them being sharpening.

Richard Hunter · January 8th, 2007, 11:04 PM

Thanks for posting these Che. I think I will go for -1 in the camera from now on.

Richard

Michael Mann · January 9th, 2007, 12:40 AM

Tannks, Che, your results are very much appreciated. Yes, I also have the impression that your -9-plus-FCP-sharpening-sample shows more artifacts than your 0-samle.

Noel Evans · January 9th, 2007, 01:36 AM

In agreeance with che, but then I turn to personal taste and for me -3 sharpness seems to give me the desired look I am after.

Nice tests by the way all.

Alex Leith · January 9th, 2007, 04:09 AM

Thanks Che. Very interesting. And I agree with Noel, Richard, Raymond, Bill, et al.: sharpness between 0 and -3 seems to give the most organic looking results.

January 3rd, 2007, 01:48 PM	#16
Michael Mann Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kelkheim, Germany Posts: 375	Thanks, Che and Alex! I guess I will do some test shots at -9 and 0, add sharpening in Vegas and compare these with native A1 footage at +6. __________________ Michael

January 8th, 2007, 09:41 PM	#19
Che Butterfield New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 24	Did some shooting over the weekend. Got some wonderful stuff and plan on posting it soon. I wanted to share some more about my experiences with sharpness and the A1. After much testing I decided to shoot with sharpness at -9 so I could tweak it in post. That way I wouldn't have to deal with a sharpness setting burned into my footage. Well it sounded good at the time but I got back and started importing into Final Cut and found that everything was soft. The strange thing, though, is that on my HD monitor, straight out of the camera, the same images are tack sharp. I thought there was a setting wrong in FCP but to my dismay the footage was importing soft in HDxDV as well. So, I thought I would go ahead and sharpen in FCP. It helped, but not without adding extra grain. Later I did some camera tests at home and found that 0 sharpening does indeed look good in FCP and not too sharp either. What I deduce is that FCP is sharpening not only the original image but also any compression artifacts while the camera does its sharpening before laying to tape. I still stand by sharpening only in post, just not with HDV. The format is too noisy and the compression is too lossy to withstand any sort of post sharpening. HDCam I would sharpen in post, DVCProHD I would attempt to sharpen in post but from my experience with HDV I'll let the camera do the heavy lifting there. Below is the results of my tests. Cam set at: -3dB 24p 1/48 Shutter 6.7f 3200K -2 Setup -1 Pedestal Normal Gamma Low Knee Middle Black Full res (1920x1080) FCP still frames are here: http://www.chebutterfield.com/A1Shar...essSamples.zip There are 4 files with the only changes between them being sharpening. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Che Butterfield; January 9th, 2007 at 11:30 AM.

January 9th, 2007, 12:40 AM	#21
Michael Mann Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kelkheim, Germany Posts: 375	Tannks, Che, your results are very much appreciated. Yes, I also have the impression that your -9-plus-FCP-sharpening-sample shows more artifacts than your 0-samle. __________________ Michael

January 9th, 2007, 04:09 AM	#23
Alex Leith Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Northampton, England Posts: 500	Thanks Che. Very interesting. And I agree with Noel, Richard, Raymond, Bill, et al.: sharpness between 0 and -3 seems to give the most organic looking results. __________________ Alex

January 3rd, 2007, 04:19 PM	#17
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I've been using the No. 1 Cine setting, and I took the sharpness down a -2, I think, and pressed the black just a little. Looks great.

January 3rd, 2007, 05:39 PM	#18
Raymond Toussaint Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 173	I like to keep sharpness at 0 or at -3. I think its too video-ish if you keep it all up.

January 8th, 2007, 11:04 PM	#20
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	Thanks for posting these Che. I think I will go for -1 in the camera from now on. Richard

January 9th, 2007, 01:36 AM	#22
Noel Evans Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 157	In agreeance with che, but then I turn to personal taste and for me -3 sharpness seems to give me the desired look I am after. Nice tests by the way all.