Down Convert HD from camera or in Edit? at DVinfo.net

John Huling · December 16th, 2006, 01:42 PM

Which is better on the XH A1...Down convert from the camera or after it's on the Hard Drive? Question ahead is once your (my) footage has been edited say in HD...don't I have a future HD version for BluRay or whatever format becomes a standard or at least an acceptable format? In other words edit my HD stuff now make a SD DVD for commercial release and then later when HD is a viable medium I will have all my edits etc ready to go without having to redo everything.
But that said still...which conversion method delivers highest quality off of the Can XH A1? I only post this here because I don't know if make of camera makes a difference or not.
Thanks and Hello Steve!

Even Solberg · December 16th, 2006, 04:53 PM

I can only speak for myself. I do it all in HD and only convert down to SD at the last stage.

Richard Hunter · December 16th, 2006, 07:29 PM

Hi John. I did a quick comparison between in-camera and in-NLE (Vegas)downconversion. Vegas was slightly better but both were very good.

I am planning to use Gearshift to create DV proxies for ease of editing in Vegas, and then switch to the original m2t files for the final render. I don't normally require to have nested renders, so I'm hoping that I can get away without using huge intermediate files.

Richard

Dave Stern · December 17th, 2006, 05:05 AM

I believe the downconverted signal out of the camera is always 60i regardless of how it was shot, if that makes a difference to your project.

John Huling · December 17th, 2006, 07:07 AM

I guess what I mean is : Is the quality going to be better going directly from the camera (shot in HD) and capturing to SD on the computer. Doesn't the file get compressed every time it goes through the transfer? The converter might be better on the Canon XH A1 than the software? What do people generally do? This probably should be in the edit threads but I am notsure if this might not be specific to the A1

Stefano Folgaria · December 17th, 2006, 11:57 AM

John, I have done some jobs that needed to be in SD but filmed in HD and now I'm preparing them for a HD DVD.
I edited everything in HDV then exported in SD Anamorphic to make a normal DVD. The quality was superb. I used FCP then Compressor and finished the job with DVD Studio Pro.
In this way you'll be able to export in HD DVD streams when you'll need it.
I dont' really know if the quality will be better down-converting from the camera. But for sure I can tell you that the SD Anamorphic streams and the final SD DVD obtained from the HDV master, were really superb.
Ciao!

Richard Hunter · December 18th, 2006, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Huling

I guess what I mean is : Is the quality going to be better going directly from the camera (shot in HD) and capturing to SD on the computer. Doesn't the file get compressed every time it goes through the transfer? The converter might be better on the Canon XH A1 than the software? What do people generally do? This probably should be in the edit threads but I am notsure if this might not be specific to the A1

Hi John. If you capture as DV (i.e. downconvert in camera) then you will go through an additional compression stage compared with capturing and editing the m2t files. Also, if you are working in NTSC, the colourspace conversions (from 4:2:0 HDV to 4:1:1 DV and back to 4:2:0 for DVD) will not do you any favours.

My preference is to keep the HDV resolution until the editing is finished, and then downconvert, but I don't have enough HDV experience yet to say for sure that it will make a big difference.

Richard

John Huling · December 18th, 2006, 06:09 AM

Thank you both ...the answer I was looking for.
I will just capture HD to the Computer in mt2 files, edit and then covert down. Just like the audio we record at 24bit 96hz or 192hz in the recording studio. Even though it all goes to cd at 16bit 44.1 in the end. It still has a better sound than if one had recorded it at 16bit 44.1 to begin with. :)
John

Tomas Sandquist · December 18th, 2006, 07:34 AM

Stefano, that is very interresting. I didn´t know it was possible to downconvert it to SD after the editing. Do you do this in FCP or in Compressor?

John Huling · December 18th, 2006, 09:14 AM

Do you have any examples? Files I could look at?
Thanks

Stefano Folgaria · December 18th, 2006, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomas Sandquist

Stefano, that is very interresting. I didn´t know it was possible to downconvert it to SD after the editing. Do you do this in FCP or in Compressor?

Compressor from FCP. I did it one year ago for a project that was filmed and edited in HDV. At the end I exported, from FCP, using compressor and choosing DVD PAL 16:9 (Anamorphic) from the presets.
It worked fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Huling

Do you have any examples? Files I could look at?
Thank

No John, I cannot show that stream since it is a marriage of a VIP and cannot show its contents. But let me finish some I'm editing, and I will post it.

Ciao!

John Huling · December 18th, 2006, 01:54 PM

Thanks Stefano

Would love to see what your doing.
John

Stefano Folgaria · December 19th, 2006, 01:01 PM

John, it is just a test of a DVD SD NTSC, made from my HDV 25F shoots in FCP and compressor made the mpeg streams in 16:9 NTSC,
It's a zip of 58,3Mb. Tell me if the quality satisfy you.
Ciao!

go here: http://www.stefanofolgaria.it/test/DV_FROM_HDV_NTSC.zip

Paul Cronin · December 19th, 2006, 02:12 PM

Hi Stefano I am also very interested but the link does not work.

Stefano Folgaria · December 19th, 2006, 02:27 PM

sorry, now it has been fixed :-)
Ciao!

December 16th, 2006, 01:42 PM	#1
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Down Convert HD from camera or in Edit? Which is better on the XH A1...Down convert from the camera or after it's on the Hard Drive? Question ahead is once your (my) footage has been edited say in HD...don't I have a future HD version for BluRay or whatever format becomes a standard or at least an acceptable format? In other words edit my HD stuff now make a SD DVD for commercial release and then later when HD is a viable medium I will have all my edits etc ready to go without having to redo everything. But that said still...which conversion method delivers highest quality off of the Can XH A1? I only post this here because I don't know if make of camera makes a difference or not. Thanks and Hello Steve!

December 16th, 2006, 04:53 PM	#2
Even Solberg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 106	I can only speak for myself. I do it all in HD and only convert down to SD at the last stage. __________________ "Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- Edgar Allan Poe

December 17th, 2006, 11:57 AM	#6
Stefano Folgaria Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 36	HDV then SD Anamorphic John, I have done some jobs that needed to be in SD but filmed in HD and now I'm preparing them for a HD DVD. I edited everything in HDV then exported in SD Anamorphic to make a normal DVD. The quality was superb. I used FCP then Compressor and finished the job with DVD Studio Pro. In this way you'll be able to export in HD DVD streams when you'll need it. I dont' really know if the quality will be better down-converting from the camera. But for sure I can tell you that the SD Anamorphic streams and the final SD DVD obtained from the HDV master, were really superb. Ciao! __________________ Canon, Nikon and Apple.. the right Team!

December 19th, 2006, 01:01 PM	#13
Stefano Folgaria Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 36	John, it is just a test of a DVD SD NTSC, made from my HDV 25F shoots in FCP and compressor made the mpeg streams in 16:9 NTSC, It's a zip of 58,3Mb. Tell me if the quality satisfy you. Ciao! go here: http://www.stefanofolgaria.it/test/DV_FROM_HDV_NTSC.zip __________________ Canon, Nikon and Apple.. the right Team! Last edited by Stefano Folgaria; December 19th, 2006 at 02:37 PM.

December 19th, 2006, 02:12 PM	#14
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Hi Stefano I am also very interested but the link does not work. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

December 16th, 2006, 07:29 PM	#3
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	Hi John. I did a quick comparison between in-camera and in-NLE (Vegas)downconversion. Vegas was slightly better but both were very good. I am planning to use Gearshift to create DV proxies for ease of editing in Vegas, and then switch to the original m2t files for the final render. I don't normally require to have nested renders, so I'm hoping that I can get away without using huge intermediate files. Richard

December 17th, 2006, 05:05 AM	#4
Dave Stern Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 391	I believe the downconverted signal out of the camera is always 60i regardless of how it was shot, if that makes a difference to your project.

December 17th, 2006, 07:07 AM	#5
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	I guess what I mean is : Is the quality going to be better going directly from the camera (shot in HD) and capturing to SD on the computer. Doesn't the file get compressed every time it goes through the transfer? The converter might be better on the Canon XH A1 than the software? What do people generally do? This probably should be in the edit threads but I am notsure if this might not be specific to the A1

December 18th, 2006, 06:09 AM	#8
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Thank you both ...the answer I was looking for. I will just capture HD to the Computer in mt2 files, edit and then covert down. Just like the audio we record at 24bit 96hz or 192hz in the recording studio. Even though it all goes to cd at 16bit 44.1 in the end. It still has a better sound than if one had recorded it at 16bit 44.1 to begin with. :) John

December 18th, 2006, 07:34 AM	#9
Tomas Sandquist New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 8	Stefano, that is very interresting. I didn´t know it was possible to downconvert it to SD after the editing. Do you do this in FCP or in Compressor?

December 18th, 2006, 09:14 AM	#10
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Do you have any examples? Files I could look at? Thanks

December 18th, 2006, 01:54 PM	#12
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Thanks Stefano Would love to see what your doing. John

December 19th, 2006, 02:27 PM	#15
Stefano Folgaria Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 36	sorry, now it has been fixed :-) Ciao! __________________ Canon, Nikon and Apple.. the right Team!