Slow Motion on the A1 at DVinfo.net

John Huling · December 2nd, 2006, 10:58 AM

Can anyone tell me how to shoot slo-mo on the Canon A1 or if it is possible? Where are some good how to resources I can get to today? I posted a question or two earlier..hoping someone can help
Thanks

Holly Rognan · December 2nd, 2006, 12:57 PM

You can't shoot slo-mo on the Canon. Only the HVX has (and the new JVC's) 60p.

What you can do is shoot in 60i have a shutter speed of 120 or a little higher. Then use twixtor or some other extrapolation program to get slow results. If you shoot in 60i you can use the 60 fields and have them deinterlaced for a fake 60p and 50% slow down. You can also convert the 60p to 24p for a little more slow motion. From what I have seen, this can look really good, but it does take some time to get it done. For extreme crisp slow-mo try twixor. I think Magic bullet does it as well, but don't quote me on it.

If you need slow motion, try the HVX200.

John Huling · December 2nd, 2006, 01:31 PM

Thanks Holly
I would not have time to goand get it today I am in So Vermont not alot of stores for 100 miles or so and certainly non that have pro stuff...all by mail/fed-x etc. Is twixtor a software program? Or can I do this on the camera?
Thanks loads for the help by the way

Holly Rognan · December 2nd, 2006, 01:37 PM

No, no, no. Like I said, you can't shoot slo-motion on the Canon.

The Canon is a pretty sweet camcorder, but it doesn't make sandwiches, take the kids to school, and clean up the house.

Twixtor is a plugin progam for many of the editing programs. It has many parameters that you can change to effectively extrapolate 'missing temporal pixels' and it essentially creates information that isn't there, based on genius algorithms. It isn't very intuitive, but it can work very well.

It isn't as good, obviously as shooting a higher framerate, but my experience is that if you spend enough time getting familiar with the settings you can get silky smooth results.

Hope this helps.

John Huling · December 2nd, 2006, 02:06 PM

Could you tell me which cameras do that are of the quality needed for commercial work? I would rather spend more now than later. How about the new Sony instead. 12 secs is better than none.

Thanks again Holly

Chuck Spaulding · December 2nd, 2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly Rognan

You can't shoot slo-mo on the Canon. Only the HVX has (and the new JVC's) 60p.

What you can do is shoot in 60i have a shutter speed of 120 or a little higher. Then use twixtor or some other extrapolation program to get slow results. If you shoot in 60i you can use the 60 fields and have them deinterlaced for a fake 60p and 50% slow down. You can also convert the 60p to 24p for a little more slow motion. From what I have seen, this can look really good, but it does take some time to get it done. For extreme crisp slow-mo try twixor. I think Magic bullet does it as well, but don't quote me on it.

If you need slow motion, try the HVX200.

This is an intersting thread because it really goes beyong the capability to do slow motion in the camera. Yes the HVX is the only camera that does variable frame rates, but it also uses a frame based codec [DVCProHD] and P2. It will not variable speed to tape.

And yes you can use Twixter and After Effects to do variable frame rates in post, but as said in your other thread regarding this I'm not sure if they would work with HDV.

So determining the right camera to give you the slow motion your looking for also may require you to decide on whether you post HDV natively or use an intermediate codec to convert to a frame based solution. If your editing with FCP I don't believe you have that chioce.

I don't know about Twixter but AE doesn't work with m2t streams and just because there's a plug in for FCP [Twixter] doesn't mean it works with them either.

John Huling · December 2nd, 2006, 02:44 PM

The "night scenes" of NYC I saw posted had slow motion in them. It was supposedly shot with the A1. I have Vegas 7 but I can go to FCP if I need to. Nothing like waiting till the last minute to find all this out. I was at a directors meeting all day yesterday so I did not have the time to check it all out. I unfortunately had just assumed (big mistake it looks like) that I could shoot in HD and down convert for DVD distribution now and do HD later. All of course with slow motion used alot in scenes. It is something that was requested at the last minute...ahh the music business

John Huling · December 2nd, 2006, 02:52 PM

By the way sorry to have ended up with two threads...was not my intent. I am just learning how this forum GUI works. Really appreciate the help.

Simon Dean · December 2nd, 2006, 02:56 PM

I'm getting between this and your other thread now...

I agree with Holly, in that if you want real slow motion then do 60i, deinterlace and go down to 24fps. I think the NYC shots just did regular slow down in the NLE though - in Vegas 7 you can do this with frame blending. It looks okay if you only slow a bit, otherwise it doesn't look like proper slo mo as you simply don't have the frames.

I tried the Sony 12 sec thing on one of their handycams and it was awful - you need tons of light.

What you said about shooting HD and converting for DVD does work - it's just that there are a couple fo steps inbetween. And personally I'd use an intermediate codec to do your editing on...

John Huling · December 2nd, 2006, 03:10 PM

Thanks Simon Any suggestions for a CODEC?

Holly Rognan · December 2nd, 2006, 03:16 PM

If all you are interested in is slow motion then one your timeline slow the footage down.

That simple.

If you want high quality results use third party plugins.

If you want horrible quality, use the new Sony and get 12 seconds of rediculoulsy choppy pixelated footage. I don't recommend it at all. From examples I have seen you might as well be shooting from a webcam and using twixtor. I could be wrong, but it just seems like marketing hype.

Bill Pryor · December 2nd, 2006, 03:21 PM

Avid does pretty good slomo, but FCP leaves something to be desired. I've never used Twixtor but have seen samples, and it looks like the best. I was interested in the HVX200 for its slomo capabilities, but the P2 workflow made it not workable for me. If the Sony V1 had 1/3" chips I might have considered it but not for the slomo capability because it's too limited. I think Twixtor is the ticket if you want to do acceptable slomo shots. Or better yet, buy a cheap used Bolex and shoot 16mm when you need slomo.

Chuck Spaulding · December 2nd, 2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Huling

Thanks Simon Any suggestions for a CODEC?

I'm not Simon but I'd recommend checking out http://www.cineform.com/

John Huling · December 2nd, 2006, 03:39 PM

Thanks Chuck just saved it to my FAV's, I will check it out later.

Jason Strongfield · December 2nd, 2006, 04:48 PM

you can down convert HVX's p2 overcranking footage to tape (SD format). This can be done seamlessly for you by the camera. You see this all the time on movies and even tv commercials.

December 2nd, 2006, 10:58 AM	#1
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Slow Motion on the A1 Can anyone tell me how to shoot slo-mo on the Canon A1 or if it is possible? Where are some good how to resources I can get to today? I posted a question or two earlier..hoping someone can help Thanks

December 2nd, 2006, 12:57 PM	#2
Holly Rognan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coalville America Posts: 244	You can't shoot slo-mo on the Canon. Only the HVX has (and the new JVC's) 60p. What you can do is shoot in 60i have a shutter speed of 120 or a little higher. Then use twixtor or some other extrapolation program to get slow results. If you shoot in 60i you can use the 60 fields and have them deinterlaced for a fake 60p and 50% slow down. You can also convert the 60p to 24p for a little more slow motion. From what I have seen, this can look really good, but it does take some time to get it done. For extreme crisp slow-mo try twixor. I think Magic bullet does it as well, but don't quote me on it. If you need slow motion, try the HVX200.

December 2nd, 2006, 01:31 PM	#3
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Thanks Holly I would not have time to goand get it today I am in So Vermont not alot of stores for 100 miles or so and certainly non that have pro stuff...all by mail/fed-x etc. Is twixtor a software program? Or can I do this on the camera? Thanks loads for the help by the way

December 2nd, 2006, 01:37 PM	#4
Holly Rognan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coalville America Posts: 244	No, no, no. Like I said, you can't shoot slo-motion on the Canon. The Canon is a pretty sweet camcorder, but it doesn't make sandwiches, take the kids to school, and clean up the house. Twixtor is a plugin progam for many of the editing programs. It has many parameters that you can change to effectively extrapolate 'missing temporal pixels' and it essentially creates information that isn't there, based on genius algorithms. It isn't very intuitive, but it can work very well. It isn't as good, obviously as shooting a higher framerate, but my experience is that if you spend enough time getting familiar with the settings you can get silky smooth results. Hope this helps.

December 2nd, 2006, 02:06 PM	#5
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Could you tell me which cameras do that are of the quality needed for commercial work? I would rather spend more now than later. How about the new Sony instead. 12 secs is better than none. Thanks again Holly

December 2nd, 2006, 02:44 PM	#7
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	The "night scenes" of NYC I saw posted had slow motion in them. It was supposedly shot with the A1. I have Vegas 7 but I can go to FCP if I need to. Nothing like waiting till the last minute to find all this out. I was at a directors meeting all day yesterday so I did not have the time to check it all out. I unfortunately had just assumed (big mistake it looks like) that I could shoot in HD and down convert for DVD distribution now and do HD later. All of course with slow motion used alot in scenes. It is something that was requested at the last minute...ahh the music business

December 2nd, 2006, 02:52 PM	#8
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	By the way sorry to have ended up with two threads...was not my intent. I am just learning how this forum GUI works. Really appreciate the help.

December 2nd, 2006, 02:56 PM	#9
Simon Dean Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Coventry, UK Posts: 91	I'm getting between this and your other thread now... I agree with Holly, in that if you want real slow motion then do 60i, deinterlace and go down to 24fps. I think the NYC shots just did regular slow down in the NLE though - in Vegas 7 you can do this with frame blending. It looks okay if you only slow a bit, otherwise it doesn't look like proper slo mo as you simply don't have the frames. I tried the Sony 12 sec thing on one of their handycams and it was awful - you need tons of light. What you said about shooting HD and converting for DVD does work - it's just that there are a couple fo steps inbetween. And personally I'd use an intermediate codec to do your editing on...

December 2nd, 2006, 03:10 PM	#10
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Thanks Simon Any suggestions for a CODEC?

December 2nd, 2006, 03:16 PM	#11
Holly Rognan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coalville America Posts: 244	If all you are interested in is slow motion then one your timeline slow the footage down. That simple. If you want high quality results use third party plugins. If you want horrible quality, use the new Sony and get 12 seconds of rediculoulsy choppy pixelated footage. I don't recommend it at all. From examples I have seen you might as well be shooting from a webcam and using twixtor. I could be wrong, but it just seems like marketing hype.

December 2nd, 2006, 03:21 PM	#12
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Avid does pretty good slomo, but FCP leaves something to be desired. I've never used Twixtor but have seen samples, and it looks like the best. I was interested in the HVX200 for its slomo capabilities, but the P2 workflow made it not workable for me. If the Sony V1 had 1/3" chips I might have considered it but not for the slomo capability because it's too limited. I think Twixtor is the ticket if you want to do acceptable slomo shots. Or better yet, buy a cheap used Bolex and shoot 16mm when you need slomo.

December 2nd, 2006, 03:39 PM	#14
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Thanks Chuck just saved it to my FAV's, I will check it out later.

December 2nd, 2006, 04:48 PM	#15
Jason Strongfield Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: USA Posts: 195	you can down convert HVX's p2 overcranking footage to tape (SD format). This can be done seamlessly for you by the camera. You see this all the time on movies and even tv commercials.