Magnet trick on the A1?

Dan Shallenberger · November 29th, 2006, 04:39 PM

Maybe I'm just being too simple-minded here and there's something wrong with this thought process, but wouldn't you just be able to hold the camcorder upside down to test if it was a mechanical level sensor versus a switch? If it doesn't flip, then you know a magnet wouldn't work.

Stu Holmes · November 29th, 2006, 06:47 PM

The sensor will likely 90% be a small mercury switch and thats why a magnet works on this sort of switch.

Mercury switches are commonly used to detect orientation changes in camera and camcorder LCD's. Mercury is a metal that is liquid at room temperature, and responds to magnetic fields.

A. J. deLange · November 30th, 2006, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Shallenberger

Maybe I'm just being too simple-minded here

Remember Occam's Razor: the simplest solution is often the best one. This is an example.

Stu: Mercury is diamagnetic which means that it attempts to retreat from a magnetic field rather than be attracted to it but the effect is much too feeble to allow it to be used in a magnetically controlled switch. Relays with mercury wetted contacts are, or used to be, made but the parts moved by the magnetic field were ferromagnetic. Mercury switches were frequently used to sense level but it was gravity moving the mercury relative to the contacts that operated them. A magnet would not have any measureable effect on such a switch. Today environmental and health concerns make it very unlikely that these cameras would contain any mercury for any reason and if they did there would be special instructions for disposal of them in the manual

Bogdan Tyburczy · November 30th, 2006, 12:03 PM

[QUOTE...
Today environmental and health concerns make it very unlikely that these cameras would contain any mercury for any reason
...[/QUOTE]

I agree with you A.J. It couldn't even be sold in EU for that reason, let alone sensitivity to shock and camera position. Still, it's possible LCD flip is controlled by reed microswitch and small magnet. Reed switches are designed for that and widely used i.e. in alarm systems. Maybe someone will be successful trying stronger magnets, but my guess is LCD in XH-A1/G1 uses simple contact microswitch. The way the flip works in XH-A1 seems to confirm it.

Rafael Lopes · December 7th, 2006, 11:35 PM

Did anyone find a way to flip the lcd yet? I tried with a magnet for a long time but no go. The FX1 was a beauty to work with when it came to 35mm adapter. With that huge lcd that needed a simple magnet to flip.

But to be honest, the more I work with the A1, the more I start wondering if you really need a 35mm adapter with this camera. The A1 has a nice bokeh and dof than many adapters, without the hassle of having more weight and now a monitor attached to the camera.

Rafael Lopes · December 7th, 2006, 11:37 PM

Oh, btw, I'm going to make some test with and without the letus35A today to compare. One thing I can say straight away is that the A1 doesn't need any macro or spacer to work with the letus.

Chris Hurd · December 8th, 2006, 12:39 AM

I think your best bet is to use an inexpensive external LCD display that's capable of flipping the image... for example the entire iKan line is super-affordable, check them out at http://www.ikancorp.com/v7000.htm

Adam Palomer · December 25th, 2006, 03:34 PM

I have been experimenting with a Sony RM-95 remote control connected to the LANC of a Sony camcorder. While browsing some of the adjustment menus I came across the image flip feature. Now, memory addresses do differ from camcorder to camcorder, so if anyone decides to give this a try, bear in mind that it will take some experimenting before you get the needed results.

Rafael Lopes · January 5th, 2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Palomer

I have been experimenting with a Sony RM-95 remote control connected to the LANC of a Sony camcorder. While browsing some of the adjustment menus I came across the image flip feature. Now, memory addresses do differ from camcorder to camcorder, so if anyone decides to give this a try, bear in mind that it will take some experimenting before you get the needed results.

This is very weird. You plugged a remote control to a camera and a function that exists on the remote and doesn't exist on the camera worked on the camera?

Ing Poh Hii · January 5th, 2007, 09:46 AM

I wonder whether this can be achieved through firmware upgrade ? add a menu option of flip LCD display ?

I am willing to pay extra for Canon if this is possible to achieve just like they can make 30f/60i in PAL XH-A1 with few hundreds dollar charges...

Chris Hurd · January 5th, 2007, 09:49 AM

Why not simply use a small external LCD monitor for this purpose... it would probably be less expensive than paying Canon for a firmware change.

Ing Poh Hii · January 5th, 2007, 09:52 AM

External monitor would mean more battery supply is needed and you need to lock it to somewhere you can view, a flip option built in will be very convenient.

Definitely if Canon ask for USD300.00 for this then I may just go to buy a 8" LCD which is bigger and cleaner... (well at the same time, more battery needed too, what the real cruel world :<).

Alex Leith · January 5th, 2007, 09:57 AM

What I'd really love (which I suspect isn't possible in firmware) if the camera could flip the image before it got to the tape. That would be really useful.

Alex Leith · January 5th, 2007, 10:01 AM

That said, if you're working on the calibre of production that requires image flipping due to 35mm adaptors, I'd agree with Chris about the external monitor - especially as you really want to be monitoring HD on a good sized monitor, if possible.

Ing Poh Hii · January 5th, 2007, 10:02 AM

Alex, that is really nice.

Perhaps Canon should maximise their "customise feature" more:

- 50i/25f + 60i/25f USD500.00
- LCD flip USD 100.00
- Recording flip image USD 400.00

That is another USD1000.00, it is a good deal Canon should think about : ).

December 8th, 2006, 12:39 AM	#22
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	I think your best bet is to use an inexpensive external LCD display that's capable of flipping the image... for example the entire iKan line is super-affordable, check them out at http://www.ikancorp.com/v7000.htm __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 5th, 2007, 09:49 AM	#26
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Why not simply use a small external LCD monitor for this purpose... it would probably be less expensive than paying Canon for a firmware change. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 5th, 2007, 09:57 AM	#28
Alex Leith Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Northampton, England Posts: 500	What I'd really love (which I suspect isn't possible in firmware) if the camera could flip the image before it got to the tape. That would be really useful. __________________ Alex

January 5th, 2007, 10:01 AM	#29
Alex Leith Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Northampton, England Posts: 500	That said, if you're working on the calibre of production that requires image flipping due to 35mm adaptors, I'd agree with Chris about the external monitor - especially as you really want to be monitoring HD on a good sized monitor, if possible. __________________ Alex

November 29th, 2006, 04:39 PM	#16
Dan Shallenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 253	Maybe I'm just being too simple-minded here and there's something wrong with this thought process, but wouldn't you just be able to hold the camcorder upside down to test if it was a mechanical level sensor versus a switch? If it doesn't flip, then you know a magnet wouldn't work.

November 29th, 2006, 06:47 PM	#17
Stu Holmes Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 844	The sensor will likely 90% be a small mercury switch and thats why a magnet works on this sort of switch. Mercury switches are commonly used to detect orientation changes in camera and camcorder LCD's. Mercury is a metal that is liquid at room temperature, and responds to magnetic fields.

November 30th, 2006, 12:03 PM	#19
Bogdan Tyburczy Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 161	[QUOTE... Today environmental and health concerns make it very unlikely that these cameras would contain any mercury for any reason ...[/QUOTE] I agree with you A.J. It couldn't even be sold in EU for that reason, let alone sensitivity to shock and camera position. Still, it's possible LCD flip is controlled by reed microswitch and small magnet. Reed switches are designed for that and widely used i.e. in alarm systems. Maybe someone will be successful trying stronger magnets, but my guess is LCD in XH-A1/G1 uses simple contact microswitch. The way the flip works in XH-A1 seems to confirm it.

December 7th, 2006, 11:35 PM	#20
Rafael Lopes Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro Posts: 1,240	Did anyone find a way to flip the lcd yet? I tried with a magnet for a long time but no go. The FX1 was a beauty to work with when it came to 35mm adapter. With that huge lcd that needed a simple magnet to flip. But to be honest, the more I work with the A1, the more I start wondering if you really need a 35mm adapter with this camera. The A1 has a nice bokeh and dof than many adapters, without the hassle of having more weight and now a monitor attached to the camera.

December 7th, 2006, 11:37 PM	#21
Rafael Lopes Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro Posts: 1,240	Oh, btw, I'm going to make some test with and without the letus35A today to compare. One thing I can say straight away is that the A1 doesn't need any macro or spacer to work with the letus.

December 25th, 2006, 03:34 PM	#23
Adam Palomer Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Summit, NJ Posts: 169	I have been experimenting with a Sony RM-95 remote control connected to the LANC of a Sony camcorder. While browsing some of the adjustment menus I came across the image flip feature. Now, memory addresses do differ from camcorder to camcorder, so if anyone decides to give this a try, bear in mind that it will take some experimenting before you get the needed results.

January 5th, 2007, 09:46 AM	#25
Ing Poh Hii Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kuching, Malaysia Posts: 104	I wonder whether this can be achieved through firmware upgrade ? add a menu option of flip LCD display ? I am willing to pay extra for Canon if this is possible to achieve just like they can make 30f/60i in PAL XH-A1 with few hundreds dollar charges...

January 5th, 2007, 09:52 AM	#27
Ing Poh Hii Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kuching, Malaysia Posts: 104	External monitor would mean more battery supply is needed and you need to lock it to somewhere you can view, a flip option built in will be very convenient. Definitely if Canon ask for USD300.00 for this then I may just go to buy a 8" LCD which is bigger and cleaner... (well at the same time, more battery needed too, what the real cruel world :<).

January 5th, 2007, 10:02 AM	#30
Ing Poh Hii Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kuching, Malaysia Posts: 104	Alex, that is really nice. Perhaps Canon should maximise their "customise feature" more: - 50i/25f + 60i/25f USD500.00 - LCD flip USD 100.00 - Recording flip image USD 400.00 That is another USD1000.00, it is a good deal Canon should think about : ).