Sd 24f at DVinfo.net

Matthew Nayman · November 8th, 2006, 04:54 PM

Quick Question for someone to test...

Standard Def 24F.... does it capture and edit exactly like the XL2 24p? Is there 24F and 24FA? (2:3 and 2:3:3:2)?

Can the HDV be done with a 24F 2:3 pulldown so it's on a 60i timeline?

Tony Tibbetts · November 8th, 2006, 08:38 PM

I believe that there is 2 versions (2:3 and 2:3:3:2) of SD 24f on the Canon cameras. I'm positive I read it in the manual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

Can the HDV be done with a 24F 2:3 pulldown so it's on a 60i timeline?

Not sure about the HDV pull down. Do you mean downconvert the HDV 24f to SD through camera and edit on a 60i SD timeline?

Matthew Nayman · November 9th, 2006, 08:34 AM

Hey Tony...

When the 24F in SD is recorded, is it edited in an SD 24p (or 24pA) timeline?

What I am saying is... on an XL2 (or DVX 100) 24p is compressed onto a 60i timeline (and in the advanced mode, uncompressed via a 2:3:3:2 pulldown) to a 24p timeline...

I understand most decks and NLE's have issues with Canon's New 24F mode for HDV. What I want to know is.... can either the SD, HDV or both forms of 24F, be used on 60i timelines without the extra 3:2 pulldown? Anyone who has used an XL2 will know exactly what I am talking about. It allows you to get the 24p look, while still editing on a 60i timeline.

If this is the case? Will standard HDV 60i decks capture and export Canon's 60i footage with the 24F embedded? If it's 60i footage, I can't imagine it wouldn't be compatible...

Henry, Ash... care to weigh in?

Henry Cho · November 9th, 2006, 10:39 AM

hey matt...

i just did some checking for you. in premiere, i just captured 24f sd footage to a 60i timeline with 2:3 pulldown, then went back out to a sony dhr-1000 deck without a problem.

EDIT:
matt, i totally misread your question the first time around. i'm not sure. i'll try and do some tests for you.

Tony Tibbetts · November 9th, 2006, 02:09 PM

I'm not positive about the SD 24f. I owned an XL2, but I don't own an A1 (...yet) so I can't say for sure. I think the basic SD 24f (2:3 pull down) functions the same way as the XL2 in regards to 60i editing. My reasoning is this:

If it doesn't function that way, why even include an advanced pull down option (2:3:3:2) in the first place?

I think you can also import the HDV 24f into a 60i timeline. However, this I'm not too sure of. I know the 24f data is kept in an HDV 60i stream. If you were to use a basic HDV1080/60i preset I think it would work.

Andrew Ott · November 9th, 2006, 06:23 PM

Could anyone post some native SD footage from the A1?

Matthew Nayman · November 9th, 2006, 09:26 PM

The quesiton is mainly to know if a 60i sony deck can read 24f embedded in a 60i timeline... I know it cant do the real 24F 2:3:3:2 but will it do the 24F 2:3?

Tony Tibbetts · November 10th, 2006, 12:03 AM

That wasn't the original question, but my guess is that no it wont

Matthew Nayman · November 10th, 2006, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

Can the HDV be done with a 24F 2:3 pulldown so it's on a 60i timeline?

Right there at the top ;)

Anyhoo, anyone give it a shot? We're sure the Sd 24f can be edited and captured and exported no problem from any 24P deck?

Wade Hanchey · November 10th, 2006, 08:04 AM

Matthew, I don't have the experience that you guys do, but quoting from page 40 in the manual:

[HD] 60i, 30F, 24F(2:3 pulldown-converted)
[SD] 60i, 30F, 24F(2:3 pulldown-converted or 2:3:3:2 pulldown-converted)

Hope this helps.

Raymond Toussaint · November 10th, 2006, 08:27 AM

this is a screengrab Canon XH A1 shooting SD 16:9 30F,

sorry wrong thread cant delete it anymore.
http://static.flickr.com/110/293387940_cd0c84864c_o.jpg

Matthew Nayman · November 10th, 2006, 02:23 PM

Ah, so in HD, you cant do 24F 2:3:3:2?

Anyway to pull a true 24P out of it?

Tony Tibbetts · November 10th, 2006, 03:20 PM

Okay so I think your question is can you import 24f footage from a sony HDV deck?

I don't think that it is possiple. The only other camera that can read 24f is the HV10

Matthew Nayman · November 10th, 2006, 03:39 PM

OH ,this I know as well :)

I am more interested in EXPORTING 24F... I know I can't export 24F back to tape... which blows. BUt I was wondering if the 24F 60i version would allow it, since it's a 60i timeline, with the 24F footage on it.

Henry Cho · November 11th, 2006, 12:12 PM

matt,

i did some shooting with the a1 in sd 16:9 mode over the past couple of days, all 24f, 2:3 pulldown. i captured the tapes off an older non-f mode compatible sony dv deck onto a premiere pro 24p timeline, cut the footage, and exported the timeline back to tape in the same sony deck. this is exactly the same workflow i, and i'm guessing you, used when shooting 24p with the xl2, and it worked without any issues. i hope that helps.

November 8th, 2006, 04:54 PM	#1
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Sd 24f Quick Question for someone to test... Standard Def 24F.... does it capture and edit exactly like the XL2 24p? Is there 24F and 24FA? (2:3 and 2:3:3:2)? Can the HDV be done with a 24F 2:3 pulldown so it's on a 60i timeline?

November 9th, 2006, 10:39 AM	#4
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	hey matt... i just did some checking for you. in premiere, i just captured 24f sd footage to a 60i timeline with 2:3 pulldown, then went back out to a sony dhr-1000 deck without a problem. EDIT: matt, i totally misread your question the first time around. i'm not sure. i'll try and do some tests for you. Last edited by Henry Cho; November 9th, 2006 at 04:40 PM.

November 10th, 2006, 08:27 AM	#11
Raymond Toussaint Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 173	its here this is a screengrab Canon XH A1 shooting SD 16:9 30F, sorry wrong thread cant delete it anymore. http://static.flickr.com/110/293387940_cd0c84864c_o.jpg

November 9th, 2006, 08:34 AM	#3
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Hey Tony... When the 24F in SD is recorded, is it edited in an SD 24p (or 24pA) timeline? What I am saying is... on an XL2 (or DVX 100) 24p is compressed onto a 60i timeline (and in the advanced mode, uncompressed via a 2:3:3:2 pulldown) to a 24p timeline... I understand most decks and NLE's have issues with Canon's New 24F mode for HDV. What I want to know is.... can either the SD, HDV or both forms of 24F, be used on 60i timelines without the extra 3:2 pulldown? Anyone who has used an XL2 will know exactly what I am talking about. It allows you to get the 24p look, while still editing on a 60i timeline. If this is the case? Will standard HDV 60i decks capture and export Canon's 60i footage with the 24F embedded? If it's 60i footage, I can't imagine it wouldn't be compatible... Henry, Ash... care to weigh in?

November 9th, 2006, 02:09 PM	#5
Tony Tibbetts Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 385	I'm not positive about the SD 24f. I owned an XL2, but I don't own an A1 (...yet) so I can't say for sure. I think the basic SD 24f (2:3 pull down) functions the same way as the XL2 in regards to 60i editing. My reasoning is this: If it doesn't function that way, why even include an advanced pull down option (2:3:3:2) in the first place? I think you can also import the HDV 24f into a 60i timeline. However, this I'm not too sure of. I know the 24f data is kept in an HDV 60i stream. If you were to use a basic HDV1080/60i preset I think it would work.

November 9th, 2006, 06:23 PM	#6
Andrew Ott Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 62	Could anyone post some native SD footage from the A1?

November 9th, 2006, 09:26 PM	#7
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	The quesiton is mainly to know if a 60i sony deck can read 24f embedded in a 60i timeline... I know it cant do the real 24F 2:3:3:2 but will it do the 24F 2:3?

November 10th, 2006, 12:03 AM	#8
Tony Tibbetts Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 385	That wasn't the original question, but my guess is that no it wont

November 10th, 2006, 08:04 AM	#10
Wade Hanchey Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 117	Matthew, I don't have the experience that you guys do, but quoting from page 40 in the manual: [HD] 60i, 30F, 24F(2:3 pulldown-converted) [SD] 60i, 30F, 24F(2:3 pulldown-converted or 2:3:3:2 pulldown-converted) Hope this helps.

November 10th, 2006, 02:23 PM	#12
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Ah, so in HD, you cant do 24F 2:3:3:2? Anyway to pull a true 24P out of it?

November 10th, 2006, 03:20 PM	#13
Tony Tibbetts Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 385	Okay so I think your question is can you import 24f footage from a sony HDV deck? I don't think that it is possiple. The only other camera that can read 24f is the HV10

November 10th, 2006, 03:39 PM	#14
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	OH ,this I know as well :) I am more interested in EXPORTING 24F... I know I can't export 24F back to tape... which blows. BUt I was wondering if the 24F 60i version would allow it, since it's a 60i timeline, with the 24F footage on it.

November 11th, 2006, 12:12 PM	#15
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	matt, i did some shooting with the a1 in sd 16:9 mode over the past couple of days, all 24f, 2:3 pulldown. i captured the tapes off an older non-f mode compatible sony dv deck onto a premiere pro 24p timeline, cut the footage, and exported the timeline back to tape in the same sony deck. this is exactly the same workflow i, and i'm guessing you, used when shooting 24p with the xl2, and it worked without any issues. i hope that helps.