Comparison Test XHA1, HVX-200, PD170

Holly Rognan · November 9th, 2006, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lammey

Thanks, yes I understand the different lowlight performance due to shutter speeds, but I was wondering about different frame rates ... would the picture look darker at 60i as opposed to 24f?

You cannot do 60i at a 24th shutter speed.

Khoi Pham · November 9th, 2006, 10:46 AM

Hi Joe, thanks for the clips, you are great, thank you for taking the time, one question, if you view this on a HD monitor, do you see resolution loss when the shutter speed is below 60th of a second like the FX1/Z1?
Thank again.

Dave Lammey · November 9th, 2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly Rognan

You cannot do 60i at a 24th shutter speed.

Let me phrase the question differently: does frame rate (not shutter speed) have any impact on lowlight sensitivity?

In other words, would shooting in 24f increase your lowlight sensitivity over shooting in 60i?

Dave Lammey · November 9th, 2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khoi Pham

Hi Joe, thanks for the clips, you are great, thank you for taking the time, one question, if you view this on a HD monitor, do you see resolution loss when the shutter speed is below 60th of a second like the FX1/Z1?
Thank again.

Hi Khoi: I know from reading your previous posts here and on weva.com that you were one of the early adopters of the FX1 ... are you planning on getting the CAnon A1? I'd be very interested in your impressions.

Michael Y Wong · November 9th, 2006, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lammey

Let me phrase the question differently: does frame rate (not shutter speed) have any impact on lowlight sensitivity?

In other words, would shooting in 24f increase your lowlight sensitivity over shooting in 60i?

Yes it should.

provided that the XH-A1 uses a 1/48 shutter speed when shooting 24p, vs 1/60 when shooting standard 60i (~30p).

All other things relatively equal, a 1/48 shutter speed allows more light capture then 1/60 shutter speed, and hence also more blur. More light capture equates to better low light performance.

As a general rule, the more frames/sec, the more light you'll need. That's why when when shooting slo-mo (many many frames per second + very fast shutter) you need an abundance of light just to get a 'normal' exposure.

Joe Simon · November 9th, 2006, 03:00 PM

Yes, at 60i you need more light. 30f is a middle ground and 24f has the best low light sensitivity. But what you film at depends on how you want the footage to look. 30f and 24f have a great film feel!

Khoi Pham · November 9th, 2006, 08:09 PM

"Hi Khoi: I know from reading your previous posts here and on weva.com that you were one of the early adopters of the FX1 ... are you planning on getting the CAnon A1? I'd be very interested in your impressions"

I think I will, I need bigger zoom, I like shalow DOF and all of these camera are 1/3 CCD, the only thing that will help is more zoom, plus 24f and 30f is a plus, the low light seems to be as good if not better than FX1 so I think my FX1 and Z1 will be on sale in the near future. (-:

Dave Lammey · November 10th, 2006, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Simon

Yes, at 60i you need more light. 30f is a middle ground and 24f has the best low light sensitivity. But what you film at depends on how you want the footage to look. 30f and 24f have a great film feel!

Thanks Joe and Michael. As someone who needs to work with slo-mo, I'm probably more interested in 60i performance ...

Khoi Pham · November 10th, 2006, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lammey

Thanks Joe and Michael. As someone who needs to work with slo-mo, I'm probably more interested in 60i performance ...

That is why I need to know if there is any resolution loss when going below 60th of a second shutter speed.
I meant at 60i with 30th, 15th...

Kevin Shaw · November 10th, 2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Simon

The shutter speeds are posted on the video clips. But the here they are.

XHA1 - 24f, 1/24, 1/6
HVX - 24p, 1/24,1/6
PD170 - 60i, 1/30, 1/6

I gather that the last item in each of these is the iris setting, which should then be written as f/1.6:

XHA1 - 24f, 1/24, f/1.6
HVX - 24p, 1/24, f/1.6
PD170 - 60i, 1/30, f/1.6

Interesting split-screen effect for the daylight clip, but when you get a chance it would be nice to see some full-size clips with identical framing from the three cameras.

Noel Evans · November 10th, 2006, 09:22 AM

Good to get te comparisons up Joe. Does take time and effort, maybe get some more time with A1 before you do comparisons again. Also please tr and get optimal focus.

Dave Lammey · November 10th, 2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khoi Pham

That is why I need to know if there is any resolution loss when going below 60th of a second shutter speed.
I meant at 60i with 30th, 15th...

I hear ya ... when I put the shutter speed at 30 on my FX1, it really boosts the lowlight performance, makes it about equivalent with the PD150, but unless the subject is stationary, you get a lot of stuttery motion ... I'd imagine the same thing will happen with the Canon A1 ...

Bill Pryor · November 10th, 2006, 10:58 AM

There is resolution loss on some SD cameras but my guess is that it would be very little on this camera. In fact, the posts shot at a 1/24 shutter at the 24f mode look nice and crisp. As noted above, anytime you shoot at a slower shutter speed, that's going to give you a slower shutter effect, which sometimes is a desireable effect. You really can't use shutter speed for exposure control in video unless nothing's moving much.

Robert Ducon · December 14th, 2006, 08:22 PM

I too am very surprised to see the HVX's resolution that much softer and more blurred than the A1! I would have thought the HVX would be stellar compared to the A1, Sony's Z1 and other cameras in that class - I'd expect the HVX to be in a class above.

Hmm.. I didn't expect that low image - and I'm not referring to low light here.

I mean, isn't the A1 shooting at 24F going to experience a drop in resolution than what it could achieve? That A1's footage looked *really* good, better than other HD cams I've tested. But I was expecting the HVX to be sharper than the Z1U, but it didn't look that way

That's the first thing I noticed, aside from the great low light of the A1. I noticed that my dreams of the HVX are not so dreamy after all.

Hey, all the more power to the A1! Hurrah!

Bill Pryor · December 14th, 2006, 08:34 PM

The HVX doesn't have the resolution of the A1 or the Sony Z1 either. They are all 1/3" chip cameras, so they're more alike than different, but higher resolution is a good thing. The best thing about the HVX is that you can do variable frame rate and therefor get good slomo. It's a very cool camera...but I bought an A1 instead.

November 9th, 2006, 10:46 AM	#32
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	Hi Joe, thanks for the clips, you are great, thank you for taking the time, one question, if you view this on a HD monitor, do you see resolution loss when the shutter speed is below 60th of a second like the FX1/Z1? Thank again. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

November 9th, 2006, 08:09 PM	#37
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	"Hi Khoi: I know from reading your previous posts here and on weva.com that you were one of the early adopters of the FX1 ... are you planning on getting the CAnon A1? I'd be very interested in your impressions" I think I will, I need bigger zoom, I like shalow DOF and all of these camera are 1/3 CCD, the only thing that will help is more zoom, plus 24f and 30f is a plus, the low light seems to be as good if not better than FX1 so I think my FX1 and Z1 will be on sale in the near future. (-: __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

November 9th, 2006, 03:00 PM	#36
Joe Simon Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 86	Yes, at 60i you need more light. 30f is a middle ground and 24f has the best low light sensitivity. But what you film at depends on how you want the footage to look. 30f and 24f have a great film feel!

November 10th, 2006, 09:22 AM	#41
Noel Evans Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 157	Good to get te comparisons up Joe. Does take time and effort, maybe get some more time with A1 before you do comparisons again. Also please tr and get optimal focus.

November 10th, 2006, 10:58 AM	#43
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	There is resolution loss on some SD cameras but my guess is that it would be very little on this camera. In fact, the posts shot at a 1/24 shutter at the 24f mode look nice and crisp. As noted above, anytime you shoot at a slower shutter speed, that's going to give you a slower shutter effect, which sometimes is a desireable effect. You really can't use shutter speed for exposure control in video unless nothing's moving much.

December 14th, 2006, 08:22 PM	#44
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	I too am very surprised to see the HVX's resolution that much softer and more blurred than the A1! I would have thought the HVX would be stellar compared to the A1, Sony's Z1 and other cameras in that class - I'd expect the HVX to be in a class above. Hmm.. I didn't expect that low image - and I'm not referring to low light here. I mean, isn't the A1 shooting at 24F going to experience a drop in resolution than what it could achieve? That A1's footage looked really good, better than other HD cams I've tested. But I was expecting the HVX to be sharper than the Z1U, but it didn't look that way That's the first thing I noticed, aside from the great low light of the A1. I noticed that my dreams of the HVX are not so dreamy after all. Hey, all the more power to the A1! Hurrah!

December 14th, 2006, 08:34 PM	#45
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	The HVX doesn't have the resolution of the A1 or the Sony Z1 either. They are all 1/3" chip cameras, so they're more alike than different, but higher resolution is a good thing. The best thing about the HVX is that you can do variable frame rate and therefor get good slomo. It's a very cool camera...but I bought an A1 instead.