Coming out of A1 via component video at DVinfo.net

David Ziegelheim · August 3rd, 2006, 08:54 PM

Does the A1 support HD component out? Uncompressed 4:2:2 HD component out? I'd love HD-SDI, but the extra $3k is probably beyond my budget!

Chris Hurd · August 3rd, 2006, 09:44 PM

Just like all other HDV camcorders, both the XH G1 and A1 offer uncompressed analog component output. You can see the component output D-Terminal jack in the photos on my site at http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/articles/images1.php -- six image down from the top, click on it to see a bigger version. Yes it is 4:2:2 but keep in mind it is an analog signal not digital. Hope this helps,

David Ziegelheim · August 3rd, 2006, 09:50 PM

However, it would be the same as the HD100/110/200, HVX200, and Z1/FX1, correct?

Chris Hurd · August 3rd, 2006, 09:57 PM

Not sure I understand your question -- but no. Some of the cameras you list are 720 and others are 1080. Analog component output from the Canon XH G1 or A1 will most closely match the Canon XL H1.

David Ziegelheim · August 4th, 2006, 09:44 AM

You had distinguished between the analog component signal and the HD-SDI signal. I was just confirming that other than the H1, G1, and HD250, all of the sub-$10k cameras use analog component output.

Most seem to offer a choice of outputs. I think the HD100/110/200 and HVX200 offer 1080i and 720p with the frame rate set separately. Presumably the 24p frame rate is a 2:3 pulldown in both cases.

Do the Canon's only have 1080i analog component out?

Is the component output much worse than the HD-SDI output?

Chris Hurd · August 4th, 2006, 10:52 AM

All of the HD cameras in this class have component output.

All of the Canon cameras are 1080.

Component output is uncompressed analog. SDI output is uncompressed digital.

Jack Jenkins · August 4th, 2006, 11:16 AM

Wow! so I had no idea that even on the A1 the component output is uncompressed, albeit analog, but still ....So this begs the question, are there any comparisons between uncompressed analog HD (I guess captured via some component HD card?) and digital uncompressed HD (SDI)?
I know for the digital purists this would be a no-go but it might be interesting just to see the actual difference that $3K gets.

A few years back, in a bind, I output some effects on a Hi8 tape via SVHS output onto a flame and the stuff looked great, we could not tell the difference between the other straight from digital effects for the project.

Chris Hurd · August 4th, 2006, 11:38 AM

I think this falls under the realm of capture card comparisons; i.e. HD analog component capture vs. HD digital (SDI) capture. My friend Mike Curtis of HD For Indies (from Austin) specializes in this sort of thing; check his blog at www.hdforindies.com

Chris Hurd · August 4th, 2006, 11:53 AM

By the way I don't know that "uncompressed" is really the right word; as the component output is 4:2:2 and not 4:4:4, so you can argue that it actually is compressed, but then again it's an analog output so you can argue that it's not compressed. Either way it should be realized that the only way to benefit from capturing the component output is if you can do it live while shooting, and then you're looking at being tethered to a capture station on the set. Currently there are no laptop solutions for component video or SDI capture. Capturing component video while shooting is neither lightweight nor portable nor inexpensive.

Gene Latimer · November 5th, 2006, 09:55 AM

In lieu of getting the G1 with SDI HD output, am wanting to know a good, economical way to get the component video into a Mac (desktop or laptop) and FCP. So that I'm ready to edit in DVCPRO HD?

What's the best way to handle the audio in this scenario? What happens with timecode?

Dave Perry · November 5th, 2006, 10:13 AM

I'm pretty sure you can use FirweWire as your control connection and time code. Then you'd need a capture card from AJA or Blackmagic. They both offer breakout boxes as well for easier connections. Then you capture from componnent out to any codec you want. Use the analog audio out.

Gene Latimer · November 5th, 2006, 11:03 AM

So, everything -- video, audio and TC -- will be in sync even though they are coming in through three separate modes?

Does anyone have a recommendation among the AJA and Blackmagic capture cards?

Jay Stebbins · November 5th, 2006, 11:09 AM

Hey Gene,

Alot of what you are looking for is buried in this thread...

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=77572&page=4

Good Luck,
Jay

Dave Perry · November 5th, 2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene Latimer

So, everything -- video, audio and TC -- will be in sync even though they are coming in through three separate modes?

Does anyone have a recommendation among the AJA and Blackmagic capture cards?

That's the problem. I'm not sure all will be in sync. Use a clapper for each shot.

We use AJA stuff and just ordered the Kona LHe for a MacPro we are setting up for live HD/SDI capture. You can read about the setup HERE. The first shoot we will use it on is next week and I will be updating that thread with info about the system and it's performance along with photos and video.

Kevin Wild · November 5th, 2006, 12:10 PM

We have had great success with the AJA Kona LHe and using it via HD SDI.

If you want timecode, you might want to look into Convergent Design's HD Connect: http://www.convergent-design.com/

This takes the firewire out and converts it into audio, video and timecode via SDI & RS422.

Good luck.

KW

August 3rd, 2006, 08:54 PM	#1
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	HD Component Out? Does the A1 support HD component out? Uncompressed 4:2:2 HD component out? I'd love HD-SDI, but the extra $3k is probably beyond my budget!

August 3rd, 2006, 09:44 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Just like all other HDV camcorders, both the XH G1 and A1 offer uncompressed analog component output. You can see the component output D-Terminal jack in the photos on my site at http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/articles/images1.php -- six image down from the top, click on it to see a bigger version. Yes it is 4:2:2 but keep in mind it is an analog signal not digital. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 3rd, 2006, 09:57 PM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Not sure I understand your question -- but no. Some of the cameras you list are 720 and others are 1080. Analog component output from the Canon XH G1 or A1 will most closely match the Canon XL H1. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 4th, 2006, 10:52 AM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	All of the HD cameras in this class have component output. All of the Canon cameras are 1080. Component output is uncompressed analog. SDI output is uncompressed digital. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 4th, 2006, 11:16 AM	#7
Jack Jenkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 122	So... Wow! so I had no idea that even on the A1 the component output is uncompressed, albeit analog, but still ....So this begs the question, are there any comparisons between uncompressed analog HD (I guess captured via some component HD card?) and digital uncompressed HD (SDI)? I know for the digital purists this would be a no-go but it might be interesting just to see the actual difference that $3K gets. A few years back, in a bind, I output some effects on a Hi8 tape via SVHS output onto a flame and the stuff looked great, we could not tell the difference between the other straight from digital effects for the project.

August 3rd, 2006, 09:50 PM	#3
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	However, it would be the same as the HD100/110/200, HVX200, and Z1/FX1, correct?

August 4th, 2006, 09:44 AM	#5
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	You had distinguished between the analog component signal and the HD-SDI signal. I was just confirming that other than the H1, G1, and HD250, all of the sub-$10k cameras use analog component output. Most seem to offer a choice of outputs. I think the HD100/110/200 and HVX200 offer 1080i and 720p with the frame rate set separately. Presumably the 24p frame rate is a 2:3 pulldown in both cases. Do the Canon's only have 1080i analog component out? Is the component output much worse than the HD-SDI output?

August 4th, 2006, 11:38 AM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	I think this falls under the realm of capture card comparisons; i.e. HD analog component capture vs. HD digital (SDI) capture. My friend Mike Curtis of HD For Indies (from Austin) specializes in this sort of thing; check his blog at www.hdforindies.com __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 4th, 2006, 11:53 AM	#9
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	By the way I don't know that "uncompressed" is really the right word; as the component output is 4:2:2 and not 4:4:4, so you can argue that it actually is compressed, but then again it's an analog output so you can argue that it's not compressed. Either way it should be realized that the only way to benefit from capturing the component output is if you can do it live while shooting, and then you're looking at being tethered to a capture station on the set. Currently there are no laptop solutions for component video or SDI capture. Capturing component video while shooting is neither lightweight nor portable nor inexpensive. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 5th, 2006, 09:55 AM	#10
Gene Latimer Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portland OR Posts: 32	Coming out of A1 via component video In lieu of getting the G1 with SDI HD output, am wanting to know a good, economical way to get the component video into a Mac (desktop or laptop) and FCP. So that I'm ready to edit in DVCPRO HD? What's the best way to handle the audio in this scenario? What happens with timecode?

November 5th, 2006, 10:13 AM	#11
Dave Perry Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 796	I'm pretty sure you can use FirweWire as your control connection and time code. Then you'd need a capture card from AJA or Blackmagic. They both offer breakout boxes as well for easier connections. Then you capture from componnent out to any codec you want. Use the analog audio out. __________________ Dave Perry Cinematographer LLC Director of Photography • Editor • Digital Film Production • 540.915.2752 • daveperry.net

November 5th, 2006, 11:03 AM	#12
Gene Latimer Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portland OR Posts: 32	So, everything -- video, audio and TC -- will be in sync even though they are coming in through three separate modes? Does anyone have a recommendation among the AJA and Blackmagic capture cards?

November 5th, 2006, 11:09 AM	#13
Jay Stebbins Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nantucket MA Posts: 82	Hey Gene, Alot of what you are looking for is buried in this thread... http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=77572&page=4 Good Luck, Jay

November 5th, 2006, 12:10 PM	#15
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	We have had great success with the AJA Kona LHe and using it via HD SDI. If you want timecode, you might want to look into Convergent Design's HD Connect: http://www.convergent-design.com/ This takes the firewire out and converts it into audio, video and timecode via SDI & RS422. Good luck. KW