Coming out of A1 via component video

John Lofton IV · July 23rd, 2007, 03:06 PM

Thanks!

Yes, that's actually a great idea I hadn't thought of before. Too bad FCP isn't Windows compatible, I'd build a custom rig right now!

I, too, would like to know if the RCA coupler degrades the signal.

Engineers? :D

*OH and FCP experts, am I right when I said, in the illustration, that the 8bit 4:2:2 uncompressed footage would be captured using the new ProRes422 codec? I'm new to that one, just checking.

Thanks!*

Lonnie Bell · July 23rd, 2007, 06:33 PM

John,
In your scenario, you could capture to any codec you choose (yes ProRes, too). If your project was short enough (or you have fast & many many GBs of storage) - you could even capture uncompressed.

The main reason to capture to ProRes422 is it greatly reduces storage while keeping high quality, and it's an easier codec to edit with than HDV (like render times).

Regards,
Lonnie

Kyle Prohaska · July 23rd, 2007, 08:32 PM

NVM, didn't read the previous post carefully lol.

- Kyle

Chris Soucy · July 23rd, 2007, 09:33 PM

But if you're taking your pc/ laptop to the camera, why are you going digital - analogue - digital when you could simply plug in the firewire and get digital - digital - digital WITH embedded sound to boot?

Or, as I said, am I missing something fundamental?

CS

Doug Davis · July 23rd, 2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

But if you're taking your pc/ laptop to the camera, why are you going digital - analogue - digital when you could simply plug in the firewire and get digital - digital - digital WITH embedded sound to boot?

Or, as I said, am I missing something fundamental?

CS

I believe going the firewire route would compress the footage to the HDV (m2t) format... I might be mistaken but I believe this is correct... The goal is to bypass the compression... It's been a while since I have done that...

Chris Soucy · July 24th, 2007, 02:23 AM

but it ain't me missing something funamental.

The ONLY compression being performed is to enable the data stream from the sensors to be written to the tape with the bandwidth limitation that applies.

Neither the analogue Component NOR the Digital Firewire O/P's data streams are compressed, unless their source is the already compressed data on the tape (ie: in playback mode).

Ergo, both sources are uncompressed, as there is no reason for them to be so. The only compression being applied is to get the data onto the tape.

So, why go from the analogue Component O/P's when you can go Digital Firewire with embedded audio?

CS

Winfried Dobbe · July 24th, 2007, 03:42 AM

I haven't worked with ProRes myself yet, but if I remember correctly from the Apple presentation, you can't capture in prores realtime, so if that is correct, FCP has to convert it to prores after capture.
The Aja io hd converts to prores with dedicated hardware.

Sergio Barbosa · July 24th, 2007, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

but it ain't me missing something funamental.

The ONLY compression being performed is to enable the data stream from the sensors to be written to the tape with the bandwidth limitation that applies.

Neither the analogue Component NOR the Digital Firewire O/P's data streams are compressed, unless their source is the already compressed data on the tape (ie: in playback mode).

Ergo, both sources are uncompressed, as there is no reason for them to be so. The only compression being applied is to get the data onto the tape.

So, why go from the analogue Component O/P's when you can go Digital Firewire with embedded audio?

CS

Chris, whatever comes out of the Firewire plug, IS compressed. In an HDV camcorder, what comes out of the firewire plug, whether it's in playback or record mode, is an HDV stream, hence a compressed data stream.

Daniel Browning · July 24th, 2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

Neither the analogue Component NOR the Digital Firewire O/P's data streams are compressed, unless their source is the already compressed data on the tape (ie: in playback mode).

Chris,

Sergio already corrected you, but I wanted to add that I *wish* that's how it worked. There is no technical reason that manufacturers have to compress live footage to HDV when sending it out via firewire, but they all do it, and none provide any other option. HDV only uses 4.5 MB/s, while firewire (400) has the capacity to carry much, much more data: 48 MB/s. That's not enough for uncompressed 4:2:2 1080, but there are a lot of options. In any case, it would compete directly with ultra-high-margin HD-SDI, and they would need to find a codec that's light on the camera's tiny CPU, so it will probably never happen.

Gary Bettan · July 24th, 2007, 12:41 PM

Why no use the BlackMagic Intensity Pro hardware for approx $350?

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

GAry

Jerome Cloninger · July 24th, 2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Bettan

Why no use the BlackMagic Intensity Pro hardware for approx $350?

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

GAry

And then you won't have to use the RCA:BNC adapter cable and RCA Coupler. YES, it will degrade signal slightly, but more importantly, all of those connections are not shielded and can let interference come into play. One connection is better than 3 in your design!

John Lofton IV · July 25th, 2007, 02:53 PM

The BlackMagic Intensity Pro sounds great! I am definitely looking for a cheaper solution.

However, I'm looking for a cheaper solution to capture the highest possible quality from my A1.

What connection could I use from the A1 to connect to the Intensity Pro?

Is there such a thing as a Terminal-D Component to HDMI cable?

Or, are there adapters that would allow me to connect the 3 component cables to the HDMI input?

Jerome Cloninger · July 25th, 2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Lofton IV

The BlackMagic Intensity Pro sounds great!

What connection could I use from the A1 to connect to the Intensity Pro?

Or, are there adapters that would allow me to connect the 3 component cables to the HDMI input?

Read up and look at the product page... it comes with a breakout cable that allows hookup of the component cables.
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

Chris Carroll · August 20th, 2007, 01:55 AM

I am aware of the HDV 4:2:0 colorspace limitations from XH-A1 captured via fire-wire. I am interested in learning any options for capturing 4:2:2 footage from XH-A1. Do any of the engineer people who've looked at the A1 think the design of the makes it possible to have an add-on jack pack be a component offered by Canon in the future, to upgrade to the functions currently available in the XH-G1? I do know that the camera is ultimately producing a full uncompressed signal, but I'm unsure if it is possible to output it.

I do have an HV-20, and will be setting up a mac pro and black magic intensity pro for capturing 4:2:2 from it in studio via HDMI, primarily for green-screen work. I would ultimately expect to see portable solutions for capturing 4:2:2 HD footage from these cameras directly to disk, bypassing DV compression, hopefully soon.

I'd still like to hear what options people have developed for themselves, and what new equipment they expect will help in portable uncompressed HD capture options or working with some of the newer codecs and capturing techniques.

thanks.

Will Griffith · August 20th, 2007, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerome Cloninger

Read up and look at the product page... it comes with a breakout cable that allows hookup of the component cables.
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

The Intensity has Analog output only. If you want a cheaper alternative to the Kona 3, then the Decklink HD at around $900 is a cheaper alternative.
It works really well for analog capture from the A1 as well as HDSDI capture from the H1.

July 23rd, 2007, 03:06 PM	#46
John Lofton IV Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland Posts: 79	Hey Thanks! Yes, that's actually a great idea I hadn't thought of before. Too bad FCP isn't Windows compatible, I'd build a custom rig right now! I, too, would like to know if the RCA coupler degrades the signal. Engineers? :D OH and FCP experts, am I right when I said, in the illustration, that the 8bit 4:2:2 uncompressed footage would be captured using the new ProRes422 codec? I'm new to that one, just checking. Thanks! Last edited by John Lofton IV; July 23rd, 2007 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Had to add that last question

July 23rd, 2007, 06:33 PM	#47
Lonnie Bell Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV United States Posts: 361	John, In your scenario, you could capture to any codec you choose (yes ProRes, too). If your project was short enough (or you have fast & many many GBs of storage) - you could even capture uncompressed. The main reason to capture to ProRes422 is it greatly reduces storage while keeping high quality, and it's an easier codec to edit with than HDV (like render times). Regards, Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Bell mamas boy productions Las Vegas, NV

July 23rd, 2007, 08:32 PM	#48
Kyle Prohaska Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ransomville NY Posts: 239	NVM, didn't read the previous post carefully lol. - Kyle __________________ Online Portfolio \| Feature Film on XHA1

July 23rd, 2007, 09:33 PM	#49
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	I must be missing something here............. But if you're taking your pc/ laptop to the camera, why are you going digital - analogue - digital when you could simply plug in the firewire and get digital - digital - digital WITH embedded sound to boot? Or, as I said, am I missing something fundamental? CS

July 24th, 2007, 02:23 AM	#51
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	Sorry guys............ but it ain't me missing something funamental. The ONLY compression being performed is to enable the data stream from the sensors to be written to the tape with the bandwidth limitation that applies. Neither the analogue Component NOR the Digital Firewire O/P's data streams are compressed, unless their source is the already compressed data on the tape (ie: in playback mode). Ergo, both sources are uncompressed, as there is no reason for them to be so. The only compression being applied is to get the data onto the tape. So, why go from the analogue Component O/P's when you can go Digital Firewire with embedded audio? CS

July 24th, 2007, 03:42 AM	#52
Winfried Dobbe Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Amersfoort, Netherlands Posts: 85	I haven't worked with ProRes myself yet, but if I remember correctly from the Apple presentation, you can't capture in prores realtime, so if that is correct, FCP has to convert it to prores after capture. The Aja io hd converts to prores with dedicated hardware.

July 24th, 2007, 12:41 PM	#55
Gary Bettan Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Glen Cove, NY Posts: 758	Why no use the BlackMagic Intensity Pro hardware for approx $350? http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/ GAry __________________ Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF

July 25th, 2007, 02:53 PM	#57
John Lofton IV Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland Posts: 79	Hmm The BlackMagic Intensity Pro sounds great! I am definitely looking for a cheaper solution. However, I'm looking for a cheaper solution to capture the highest possible quality from my A1. What connection could I use from the A1 to connect to the Intensity Pro? Is there such a thing as a Terminal-D Component to HDMI cable? Or, are there adapters that would allow me to connect the 3 component cables to the HDMI input? Last edited by John Lofton IV; July 25th, 2007 at 02:54 PM. Reason: Upon closer inspection, I see there is another input for 'component' . Where do I find THAT cable?*

August 20th, 2007, 01:55 AM	#59
Chris Carroll New Boot Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 9	Has anyone worked this one out yet? I am aware of the HDV 4:2:0 colorspace limitations from XH-A1 captured via fire-wire. I am interested in learning any options for capturing 4:2:2 footage from XH-A1. Do any of the engineer people who've looked at the A1 think the design of the makes it possible to have an add-on jack pack be a component offered by Canon in the future, to upgrade to the functions currently available in the XH-G1? I do know that the camera is ultimately producing a full uncompressed signal, but I'm unsure if it is possible to output it. I do have an HV-20, and will be setting up a mac pro and black magic intensity pro for capturing 4:2:2 from it in studio via HDMI, primarily for green-screen work. I would ultimately expect to see portable solutions for capturing 4:2:2 HD footage from these cameras directly to disk, bypassing DV compression, hopefully soon. I'd still like to hear what options people have developed for themselves, and what new equipment they expect will help in portable uncompressed HD capture options or working with some of the newer codecs and capturing techniques. thanks.