A1 accessory link at DVinfo.net

Cody Lucido · November 3rd, 2006, 11:14 AM

I don't know if you have seen this, but here is a breakdown of products from Canon for the A1:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=14061

Pete Bauer · November 3rd, 2006, 01:28 PM

Thanks, Cody.

Yup, for those who were wondering about the lack of downloadable documents and further web site support info on the XH's, Canon has obviously stuck to their formula: as soon as the cameras are shipped THEN the web site gets updated.

Kevin Wild · November 4th, 2006, 02:07 AM

Couldn't even register my new A1 online today. It wasn't listed in the pulldown menu. Come on, Canon, get with it! :-)

...and give us a deck that supports 24f, too! It's been a year. (yes, I have the HV10. I want a deck.)

Chris Hurd · November 4th, 2006, 02:47 AM

The HV10 is probably going to be as good as it gets for a deck. Canon hasn't made a VTR for nearly two decades, and even that one was just a re-badged Panasonic (in S-VHS format). Now that the HV10 supports Frame mode and 4-channel audio playback, don't hold your breath for anything from Canon Video that doesn't have a lens.

Bill Pryor · November 4th, 2006, 11:18 AM

Well, the cameas have shipped, people are using them, and the web site still says "stay tuned."

Kevin Wild · November 4th, 2006, 04:54 PM

Chris, I guess this is true, but it is pretty astounding and depressing. To put out a format and camera that is $9000 and call it "Pro" and not have a deck is pretty unbelievable. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but wish people would really rise up on this one.

I didn't expect them to put out a deck...not their business. But to not work with SONY on their "F" mode to ensure compatibility is crazy and very short sighted.

When asked point blank about this, what do they say? "Use your camera as a deck?" For lower end places or home users that's fine, but for a pro place it's pretty unprofessional looking.

We've been struggling for 2 weeks to someone how get some XL H1 ftg to a SONY HDCam deck in 23.97...it's not pretty. Again, I'm a big fan and now have the H1, A1 and HV10. It just find it unacceptable to have to hook up my camera every time I capture...

Bill Pryor · November 4th, 2006, 04:59 PM

I think that may be a big reason Canon cameras don't get used all that much in professional studios. I threw out the idea that we could get 2 XL H1s and an A1 for less than our current camera and lens cost and the first question was, how much are the decks? When I said no decks, the others concerned said no deal. I know, you could shoot 60i and use Sony decks, but everybody's hot to convert to some form of 24p in the next round of purchasing. It'll probably end up XDCAM HD at work, but I'll probably end up with the A1 for personal use.

Chris Hurd · November 4th, 2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

When asked point blank about this, what do they say? "Use your camera as a deck?"

Nope... they'll say "use an HV10."

Matthew Nayman · November 4th, 2006, 05:29 PM

So... Is it a hardware problem with decks or a software problem with decks?

I would assume the physical apparatus of a sony HDV deck can handle canon tapes, but knowing nothing about how they work, I don't understand why a software (firmware?) upgrade for a deck can't be manufactured to recognize 24F

Kevin Wild · November 4th, 2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Nope... they'll say "use an HV10."

Uhh...isn't that nearly the same. You and I both know what I'm getting at. HV10 does not play HD SDI out to a Kona card. If you want to use DVCProHD their only answer would be use the H1 as playback or the new G1 or...umm...what? Nothing.

Again, I'm a huge Canon fan, but if they want to play in the "pro" arena and charge "pro" prices, they'd better ensure it can be implemented in a "pro" way.

Just my $.02.

Bill Pryor · November 4th, 2006, 07:56 PM

Seems you and I are in the minority on that. The way we edit, both editors have to have their own decks because we may pop tapes in and out 50 times a day, probably more, on a big show with lots of tapes. I have a friend with a nice FCP setup, but he has an older cosumerish Panasonic DV deck. It's a pretty good deck amd takes full size cassettes, but it takes about 5 times as long to search through a tape as with our DSR1800s, and it takes forever for the deck to cue up. In fact, it's so slow to interact with FCP you find yourself shuttling with the deck controls. I'm not knocking Panasonic decks, just this old not-quite-pro one (it doesn't have XLRs either), and my point is that in a production environment you need a really good, responsive deck. On a personal project where you may load one tape a week from start to finish instead of shuttling back and forth through many tapes hunting things, I can see how you could survive using the camera as a deck, but it's not an ideal solution by any means. Canon should cut a deal with JVC to make 24F work with one of their decks.

Kevin Wild · November 4th, 2006, 08:07 PM

Agree 100%, Bill, but I don't think it will happen. Isn't JVC only 720? I would think it would be MUCH easier with SONY, since they already support their 1080i format.

We are on the same page with this complaint. The HV10 is "a" solution, but hardly a good one. We loaded about 60 hours from it the past 3 weeks. The transport is very slow and clunky and obviously, you can only load HDV via firewire. At first, I thought this would work fine for some projects. After my first one, no way. I'm back to everything DVCProHD via HDSDI/Kona LHe. The HDV project was not only very clunky and render intensive, it did some very strange things in editing that would never work if a client had been sitting over my shoulder.

Oh well. Chris, I know you are pretty connected with the Canon guys. Hope you can pass on our desires and also hope you are wrong about their response begin "just buy an HV10!"

Thanks. Rant mode off...:-)

KW

Tim Spencer · November 4th, 2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

When asked point blank about this, what do they say? "Use your camera as a deck?" .

I believe what Canon really means is "buy a second XH A1 and use it as a deck"(which means extra $$$ for Canon)..... :)

I wonder if any third-party hardware manufacturer can come out with a deck that can work with Canon?

Kevin Wild · November 4th, 2006, 09:26 PM

Tim, Chris is right that HV10 is a deck-like solution for about $1200. You don't need an A1 for this...it's probably the same tape transport anyways.

However, for HD-SDI, you would need at least the new G1, which is more than the A1.

If you're happy with working in HDV and don't have edit suites with clients and are okay with putting a little wear on your camera for capturing...the HV10 will work and is a fine solution.

Matthew Nayman · November 4th, 2006, 11:55 PM

I mistakenly bought a sony HVRm15U before reading the fine print, and only later learned it wont do 24f. It is a great deck though. I use it all the time for SD 24p stuff (although it says it doesn't technically do it... odd) and would love an identical deck that did 24f import/export via firewire and had a component and HDMI out...

Again... anyone smart enough (brave enough) to hack a deck? What is the incompatible mechanism/? Is it a hardware or firmware thing?

November 3rd, 2006, 11:14 AM	#1
Cody Lucido Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 206	A1 accessory link I don't know if you have seen this, but here is a breakdown of products from Canon for the A1: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=14061 __________________ www.CodemanStudios.com

November 3rd, 2006, 01:28 PM	#2
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Thanks, Cody. Yup, for those who were wondering about the lack of downloadable documents and further web site support info on the XH's, Canon has obviously stuck to their formula: as soon as the cameras are shipped THEN the web site gets updated. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

November 4th, 2006, 02:47 AM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	The HV10 is probably going to be as good as it gets for a deck. Canon hasn't made a VTR for nearly two decades, and even that one was just a re-badged Panasonic (in S-VHS format). Now that the HV10 supports Frame mode and 4-channel audio playback, don't hold your breath for anything from Canon Video that doesn't have a lens. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 4th, 2006, 02:07 AM	#3
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Couldn't even register my new A1 online today. It wasn't listed in the pulldown menu. Come on, Canon, get with it! :-) ...and give us a deck that supports 24f, too! It's been a year. (yes, I have the HV10. I want a deck.)

November 4th, 2006, 11:18 AM	#5
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Well, the cameas have shipped, people are using them, and the web site still says "stay tuned."

November 4th, 2006, 04:54 PM	#6
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Chris, I guess this is true, but it is pretty astounding and depressing. To put out a format and camera that is $9000 and call it "Pro" and not have a deck is pretty unbelievable. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but wish people would really rise up on this one. I didn't expect them to put out a deck...not their business. But to not work with SONY on their "F" mode to ensure compatibility is crazy and very short sighted. When asked point blank about this, what do they say? "Use your camera as a deck?" For lower end places or home users that's fine, but for a pro place it's pretty unprofessional looking. We've been struggling for 2 weeks to someone how get some XL H1 ftg to a SONY HDCam deck in 23.97...it's not pretty. Again, I'm a big fan and now have the H1, A1 and HV10. It just find it unacceptable to have to hook up my camera every time I capture...

November 4th, 2006, 04:59 PM	#7
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I think that may be a big reason Canon cameras don't get used all that much in professional studios. I threw out the idea that we could get 2 XL H1s and an A1 for less than our current camera and lens cost and the first question was, how much are the decks? When I said no decks, the others concerned said no deal. I know, you could shoot 60i and use Sony decks, but everybody's hot to convert to some form of 24p in the next round of purchasing. It'll probably end up XDCAM HD at work, but I'll probably end up with the A1 for personal use.

November 4th, 2006, 05:29 PM	#9
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	So... Is it a hardware problem with decks or a software problem with decks? I would assume the physical apparatus of a sony HDV deck can handle canon tapes, but knowing nothing about how they work, I don't understand why a software (firmware?) upgrade for a deck can't be manufactured to recognize 24F

November 4th, 2006, 07:56 PM	#11
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Seems you and I are in the minority on that. The way we edit, both editors have to have their own decks because we may pop tapes in and out 50 times a day, probably more, on a big show with lots of tapes. I have a friend with a nice FCP setup, but he has an older cosumerish Panasonic DV deck. It's a pretty good deck amd takes full size cassettes, but it takes about 5 times as long to search through a tape as with our DSR1800s, and it takes forever for the deck to cue up. In fact, it's so slow to interact with FCP you find yourself shuttling with the deck controls. I'm not knocking Panasonic decks, just this old not-quite-pro one (it doesn't have XLRs either), and my point is that in a production environment you need a really good, responsive deck. On a personal project where you may load one tape a week from start to finish instead of shuttling back and forth through many tapes hunting things, I can see how you could survive using the camera as a deck, but it's not an ideal solution by any means. Canon should cut a deal with JVC to make 24F work with one of their decks.

November 4th, 2006, 08:07 PM	#12
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Agree 100%, Bill, but I don't think it will happen. Isn't JVC only 720? I would think it would be MUCH easier with SONY, since they already support their 1080i format. We are on the same page with this complaint. The HV10 is "a" solution, but hardly a good one. We loaded about 60 hours from it the past 3 weeks. The transport is very slow and clunky and obviously, you can only load HDV via firewire. At first, I thought this would work fine for some projects. After my first one, no way. I'm back to everything DVCProHD via HDSDI/Kona LHe. The HDV project was not only very clunky and render intensive, it did some very strange things in editing that would never work if a client had been sitting over my shoulder. Oh well. Chris, I know you are pretty connected with the Canon guys. Hope you can pass on our desires and also hope you are wrong about their response begin "just buy an HV10!" Thanks. Rant mode off...:-) KW

November 4th, 2006, 09:26 PM	#14
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Tim, Chris is right that HV10 is a deck-like solution for about $1200. You don't need an A1 for this...it's probably the same tape transport anyways. However, for HD-SDI, you would need at least the new G1, which is more than the A1. If you're happy with working in HDV and don't have edit suites with clients and are okay with putting a little wear on your camera for capturing...the HV10 will work and is a fine solution.

November 4th, 2006, 11:55 PM	#15
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	I mistakenly bought a sony HVRm15U before reading the fine print, and only later learned it wont do 24f. It is a great deck though. I use it all the time for SD 24p stuff (although it says it doesn't technically do it... odd) and would love an identical deck that did 24f import/export via firewire and had a component and HDMI out... Again... anyone smart enough (brave enough) to hack a deck? What is the incompatible mechanism/? Is it a hardware or firmware thing?