A1--couple of questions

Chris Hurd · October 27th, 2006, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Has anybody determined for sure if it will play 24F.

Yes, for sure, the HV10 will play back both 24F and 30F Frame modes.

Matthew Nayman · October 27th, 2006, 08:38 PM

Is there anyway to dump a 24f project into a 60i timeline and maintain the look of 24f?

Chris Hurd · October 27th, 2006, 08:51 PM

Which NLE are you referring to, so I can move your post to the appropriate software discussion forum?

Nick Weeks · October 28th, 2006, 08:53 AM

That's the issue I'm having... I would consider the HV10, but I would rather purchase a true deck with all the extra outputs and such, and that Sony seemed to work great, but as you guys said no 24F... which isn't a complete killer, but nice to have available in a deck

Boy Canon really needs to make a deck!

Bill Pryor · October 28th, 2006, 09:34 AM

I agree. I think especially as good as the H1 is that a lot of smaller production houses that now use bigger SD cameras would move to Canon if decks were available. Especially when you consider that you could get two or three H1 cameras and a deck (assuming a reasonably priced deck) for less money than any 2/3" chip camera, or even less than the XDCAM HD 1/2" chip camera.

I've always been nervous about not having a 2/3" chip camera, and even times when I've gone out with a DSR250 on a shoot, I always took the DSR500 along "just in case." However, I've been shooting more and more with smaller cameras, and with the quality of what I've seen from some of the HDV 1/3" chip cameras, I could easily go that route today. But in our company, we'd need a real deck for each edit room.

On a personal level, however, I probably could live without a deck for awhile if necessary, but it's not ideal. It seems to me that Canon hasn't quite decided whether it makes professional or consumer cameras. For instance, you go to their web site and you have to click on Consumer Products, then you get a picture of a little single chip consumer camera and you click on it and it will take you to the professional ones. If they really want to start selling in the smaller TV and producer market, a separate (or apparently separate) professional division as JVC has would help, I think, as well as a deck. But that's just my jaded opinion and it won't keep me from getting the A1 if my personal project is appropriate for it in the near future.

Jerry Gordon · October 28th, 2006, 09:31 PM

For output to DVD or Blu Ray or whatever, is 30f preferable and better quality than 24f ALL the time?

Also I notice that the A1 does 60f I believe. Is this for HD mode only?

Jerry

Marty Hudzik · October 28th, 2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Gordon

For output to DVD or Blu Ray or whatever, is 30f preferable and better quality than 24f ALL the time?

Also I notice that the A1 does 60f I believe. Is this for HD mode only?

Jerry

2 things. I think technically 24f will always be superior to 30f as the data rate stays constant. So simple math says 25mbps\24 is going to give you a better ratio than 25mbps\30. Now, mpg encoding may change that formula a little but I think as a rule you will have less compression visible in 24f.....not that is very visible at all in the first place.

60F? On the A1? I don't think so. Maybe you are thinking of the new JVC. If the A1 has it too then I am even more excited!

Peace!

Jerry Gordon · October 28th, 2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik

60F? On the A1? I don't think so. Maybe you are thinking of the new JVC. If the A1 has it too then I am even more excited!

Peace!

Thanks Marty, I had read somewhere that 30 was better but I may have misread it.

I definitely mistyped above...I meant 60i no f..I am sorry for that.

Is 60i specifically for HD?

thanks
Jerry.

Pete Bauer · October 29th, 2006, 04:56 AM

60i is good ol' 50+ year old NTSC interlaced standard. It has 30 frames per second (well, actually 29.97 for ancient technical reasons), with each frame being composed of two fields, one of which has the even scan lines and the other the odd scan lines. Fields are displayed every 1/60th of a second. There are quite a few threads on DVi about the technicalities and vagarities of interlaced video, so if it piques your interest and you have a high tolerance for pain, try a keyword search.

Jack Jenkins · October 29th, 2006, 08:39 AM

...it can do 60f 720 though right?

Marty Hudzik · October 29th, 2006, 10:20 AM

I hope you are joking. If not, the Xl-H1, A1/G1 and HV10 do no form of 720P let alone a 60F variety.

Chris Hurd · October 29th, 2006, 10:42 AM

Absolutely no 720 on any Canon HDV camcorder.

Jerry Gordon · October 29th, 2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Absolutely no 720 on any Canon HDV camcorder.

Pete thanks....at least I know what the i stood for..I feel like an idiot, it was right there in front of me.

And what you saiid now lays it all open and very clear to me what the 60i and the 30f and so on mean.

But Chris, my question to you and maybe there is an answer already posted, if so I am sorry.

Is 720 desirable over the others? and if so why? I would assume it is more of something the professionals would use?
thanks
Jerry

Bill Pryor · October 29th, 2006, 11:26 AM

They are just two standards. Some think one is better, others think the other. Sony and Canon do 1080i, JVC and Panasonic do 720. Two networks do 720p, two do 1080i. Sony and Canon derive P for I, so they're a little more versatile.

Jack Jenkins · October 29th, 2006, 11:01 PM

I thought the panny HVX does 720p and 1080p?

October 27th, 2006, 08:51 PM	#18
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Which NLE are you referring to, so I can move your post to the appropriate software discussion forum? __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 29th, 2006, 04:56 AM	#24
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	60i is good ol' 50+ year old NTSC interlaced standard. It has 30 frames per second (well, actually 29.97 for ancient technical reasons), with each frame being composed of two fields, one of which has the even scan lines and the other the odd scan lines. Fields are displayed every 1/60th of a second. There are quite a few threads on DVi about the technicalities and vagarities of interlaced video, so if it piques your interest and you have a high tolerance for pain, try a keyword search. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

October 29th, 2006, 10:42 AM	#27
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Absolutely no 720 on any Canon HDV camcorder. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 27th, 2006, 08:38 PM	#17
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Is there anyway to dump a 24f project into a 60i timeline and maintain the look of 24f?

October 28th, 2006, 08:53 AM	#19
Nick Weeks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL USA Posts: 722	That's the issue I'm having... I would consider the HV10, but I would rather purchase a true deck with all the extra outputs and such, and that Sony seemed to work great, but as you guys said no 24F... which isn't a complete killer, but nice to have available in a deck Boy Canon really needs to make a deck!

October 28th, 2006, 09:34 AM	#20
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I agree. I think especially as good as the H1 is that a lot of smaller production houses that now use bigger SD cameras would move to Canon if decks were available. Especially when you consider that you could get two or three H1 cameras and a deck (assuming a reasonably priced deck) for less money than any 2/3" chip camera, or even less than the XDCAM HD 1/2" chip camera. I've always been nervous about not having a 2/3" chip camera, and even times when I've gone out with a DSR250 on a shoot, I always took the DSR500 along "just in case." However, I've been shooting more and more with smaller cameras, and with the quality of what I've seen from some of the HDV 1/3" chip cameras, I could easily go that route today. But in our company, we'd need a real deck for each edit room. On a personal level, however, I probably could live without a deck for awhile if necessary, but it's not ideal. It seems to me that Canon hasn't quite decided whether it makes professional or consumer cameras. For instance, you go to their web site and you have to click on Consumer Products, then you get a picture of a little single chip consumer camera and you click on it and it will take you to the professional ones. If they really want to start selling in the smaller TV and producer market, a separate (or apparently separate) professional division as JVC has would help, I think, as well as a deck. But that's just my jaded opinion and it won't keep me from getting the A1 if my personal project is appropriate for it in the near future.

October 28th, 2006, 09:31 PM	#21
Jerry Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leicester, nc Posts: 86	For output to DVD or Blu Ray or whatever, is 30f preferable and better quality than 24f ALL the time? Also I notice that the A1 does 60f I believe. Is this for HD mode only? Jerry

October 29th, 2006, 08:39 AM	#25
Jack Jenkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 122	...it can do 60f 720 though right?

October 29th, 2006, 10:20 AM	#26
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	I hope you are joking. If not, the Xl-H1, A1/G1 and HV10 do no form of 720P let alone a 60F variety.

October 29th, 2006, 11:26 AM	#29
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	They are just two standards. Some think one is better, others think the other. Sony and Canon do 1080i, JVC and Panasonic do 720. Two networks do 720p, two do 1080i. Sony and Canon derive P for I, so they're a little more versatile.

October 29th, 2006, 11:01 PM	#30
Jack Jenkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 122	I thought the panny HVX does 720p and 1080p?