Q&A after a short hands-on

Tony Tremble · October 2nd, 2006, 02:08 PM

Chris,

Could you please let us know if the XH-A1 has an improved lens to the XL-H1? Have Canon reduced the chromatic aberation issues, which the XL-H1 suffered, on the new XHs?

In the UK I'm seeing the XH-A1 priced at £2350 copared to the Sony V1 at £3166. Even if the XHs have more CA than the Sony that price is really very tempting.

Cheers

TT

Chris Hurd · October 2nd, 2006, 02:44 PM

Tony it's important to make a distinction here as to what the XL H1 suffers in particular and what it is inherent in the format itself. There is *some* chromatic abberation in the 20x stock HD lens, but it is certainly no worse than other HD quality lenses. While Canon took steps to minimize CA in that lens, it can't be made to go away completely without raising its price significantly.

There is a "chroma undersampling effect" inherent in the HDV format which some folks have mistaken as chromatic abberation. This purple fringing visible on some object edges is not caused by the lens at all but rather by chroma sampling schemes of less than 4:2:2. For more information, see A.J. deLange's excellent explanation located here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....2&postcount=44 which includes tips for getting around this issue.

That said, I have not noticed it but that doesn't mean it isn't there. I'll have another sit-down with the XH cameras later this week though.

Noah Hayes · October 2nd, 2006, 07:30 PM

Anyone have any idea when this camera will be on display at B&H? I'm taking vacation the last week of the month and want to go test it out...

Stu Holmes · October 2nd, 2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

Chris,

Could you please let us know if the XH-A1 has an improved lens to the XL-H1? Have Canon reduced the chromatic aberation issues, which the XL-H1 suffered, on the new XHs?

In the UK I'm seeing the XH-A1 priced at £2350 copared to the Sony V1 at £3166. Even if the XHs have more CA than the Sony that price is really very tempting.

Cheers

TT

GBP2350 ?!?!?!? for the XH-A1 ?? thats a hell of a price. Please can you, umm, oh i just remembered something Chris posted recently about UK dealer recs....... errrr ok i'll stop there then!

BTW, I have seen V1E for a price of GBP2950 (includes VAT). Best price i seen so far for that. But you gotta find that yourself..

Tony Tremble · October 3rd, 2006, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Tony it's important to make a distinction here as to what the XL H1 suffers in particular and what it is inherent in the format itself. There is *some* chromatic abberation in the 20x stock HD lens, but it is certainly no worse than other HD quality lenses. While Canon took steps to minimize CA in that lens, it can't be made to go away completely without raising its price significantly.

There is a "chroma undersampling effect" inherent in the HDV format which some folks have mistaken as chromatic abberation. This purple fringing visible on some object edges is not caused by the lens at all but rather by chroma sampling schemes of less than 4:2:2. For more information, see A.J. deLange's excellent explanation located here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....2&postcount=44 which includes tips for getting around this issue.

That said, I have not noticed it but that doesn't mean it isn't there. I'll have another sit-down with the XH cameras later this week though.

Cheers Chris

Yes, I'm pretty clued up as to what is CA and what isn't. In my own tests at dealers the cameras the XL-H1 did have the most real CA. It was particularly obvious in the wider angle which for me is the most useful end of the zoom range.

So I was hoping that Canon may have reduced the CA still further in these new cameras. I'm not a "measurebator" and realise that CA is something that we'll see time to time. I'm not hung up over it but at the end of the day I'd rather have less of it than more of it.

As you've got both the V1 and XH-A1 I wonder if you could/have compared low light performance together.

Stu

If you use one of the uk specific price comparison websites you'll find the xh-A1 price. It's being sold by the UK's biggest computer PC hardware and components firm. Its basically £500 cheaper than I can find elsewhere!!

I'm new around here so don't know the rules yet. I take it it's not the done thing to post dealers names????

ATB

TT

Chris Hurd · October 3rd, 2006, 06:12 AM

Tony as a matter of policy, to be fair to our site sponsors they are the only dealers we discuss on this site. In the UK we recommend Production Gear in Hertfordshire. Thanks in advance.

Quote:

As you've got both the V1 and XH-A1 I wonder if you could/have compared low light performance together.

Well I had the V1 and A1 together for all of about 60 seconds, just barely enough time to take the photos I've posted in another thread.

Elsewhere in the V1 forum Steve Mullen mentions that he had the use of one (the same one Douglas Spotted Eagle had) to study for an evening in his hotel room. The next morning he brought it downstairs to hand off to Leigh Herman of Sony, who was about to pack it away, when I asked if I could quickly photograph it with the A1.

No doubt there will be an opportunity to compare the V1 and A1 in a variety of tests very soon.

Tony Tremble · October 3rd, 2006, 08:51 AM

Ah, I see. I saw the pics and put 2 n 2 together and made 5. :-)

Any info is always gratefully received...

TT

Doug Bennett · October 3rd, 2006, 10:13 AM

Chris

You comment that the lowlight performance of the G1/A1 is similar to the H1. is that based upon testing the cam or going from the specs?

thanks

Jim Martin · October 3rd, 2006, 04:26 PM

If you are in LA this Saturday, we are having our H1 seminar at 9am and we will have an A1 or...a G1 for people to play with.

Jim Martin

Chris Hurd · October 4th, 2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

does the viewfinder and/or LCD screen do underscan or do they crop like the other Canons?

Bill, re: the image area coverage in either LCD viewinder is something like 95% or maybe a little less. There is a 90% action safe zone guide in the display menu, and when the guide is toggled on, it hugs the border of the visible image. Since it's a 90% action safe guide and since it's almost but not quite to the edge of the frame, that leads me to believe that the display is showing perhaps 95% of the total image area. In other words, nothing new here. Hope this helps,

Bill Pryor · October 4th, 2006, 06:55 PM

Yeah, I kinda expected that. Not cool, but not a deal-breaker. Thanks for checking. So far that's the only thing I've found out about the A1 that I don't like. That puts it ahead of all the other 1/3" chip cameras so far.

Floris van Eck · October 6th, 2006, 05:08 AM

Will there be a larger eyecup, like with the Sony Z1/V1? The EVF looks a bit uncomfortable compared to the one on other cameras.

Bill Pryor · October 6th, 2006, 08:42 AM

One thing I forgot to ask...I've been shooting a documentary with a friend who has an XL2, and the damn thing turns itself off all the time. I'm wondering if these new Canons do the same thing and if so, is there any way to get in the menu and turn that off or make the camera stay on longer. With the XL2, you get a shot all ready, stand around until things are set, and the camera has switched off, and you have to rotate the dial all the way back to the off position, then back to manual and wait for it to fire up. That's the most annoying thing I've ever seen on a camera.

Marty Hudzik · October 6th, 2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

One thing I forgot to ask...I've been shooting a documentary with a friend who has an XL2, and the damn thing turns itself off all the time. I'm wondering if these new Canons do the same thing and if so, is there any way to get in the menu and turn that off or make the camera stay on longer. With the XL2, you get a shot all ready, stand around until things are set, and the camera has switched off, and you have to rotate the dial all the way back to the off position, then back to manual and wait for it to fire up. That's the most annoying thing I've ever seen on a camera.

Both the XL2 and the XLh1 have a menu option to tell the camera to put the tape heads on standby instead of turning off the camera. In this case there will be a slight delay when you hit record after standy instead of turning the camera on again. It is a safety mechanism to protect the heads.

Bill Pryor · October 6th, 2006, 08:58 AM

Excellent--just like a "real" camera. That Sony V1 is going to have to really be something if they expect me to like it better than the Canon A1.

October 2nd, 2006, 02:44 PM	#47
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Tony it's important to make a distinction here as to what the XL H1 suffers in particular and what it is inherent in the format itself. There is some chromatic abberation in the 20x stock HD lens, but it is certainly no worse than other HD quality lenses. While Canon took steps to minimize CA in that lens, it can't be made to go away completely without raising its price significantly. There is a "chroma undersampling effect" inherent in the HDV format which some folks have mistaken as chromatic abberation. This purple fringing visible on some object edges is not caused by the lens at all but rather by chroma sampling schemes of less than 4:2:2. For more information, see A.J. deLange's excellent explanation located here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....2&postcount=44 which includes tips for getting around this issue. That said, I have not noticed it but that doesn't mean it isn't there. I'll have another sit-down with the XH cameras later this week though. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 2nd, 2006, 02:08 PM	#46
Tony Tremble Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 451	Chris, Could you please let us know if the XH-A1 has an improved lens to the XL-H1? Have Canon reduced the chromatic aberation issues, which the XL-H1 suffered, on the new XHs? In the UK I'm seeing the XH-A1 priced at £2350 copared to the Sony V1 at £3166. Even if the XHs have more CA than the Sony that price is really very tempting. Cheers TT

October 2nd, 2006, 07:30 PM	#48
Noah Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sterling, Virginia Posts: 226	Anyone have any idea when this camera will be on display at B&H? I'm taking vacation the last week of the month and want to go test it out...

October 3rd, 2006, 08:51 AM	#52
Tony Tremble Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 451	Ah, I see. I saw the pics and put 2 n 2 together and made 5. :-) Any info is always gratefully received... TT

October 3rd, 2006, 10:13 AM	#53
Doug Bennett Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 260	Chris You comment that the lowlight performance of the G1/A1 is similar to the H1. is that based upon testing the cam or going from the specs? thanks

October 3rd, 2006, 04:26 PM	#54
Jim Martin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burbank, CA 91502 Posts: 949	If you are in LA this Saturday, we are having our H1 seminar at 9am and we will have an A1 or...a G1 for people to play with. Jim Martin

October 4th, 2006, 06:55 PM	#56
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Yeah, I kinda expected that. Not cool, but not a deal-breaker. Thanks for checking. So far that's the only thing I've found out about the A1 that I don't like. That puts it ahead of all the other 1/3" chip cameras so far.

October 6th, 2006, 05:08 AM	#57
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Will there be a larger eyecup, like with the Sony Z1/V1? The EVF looks a bit uncomfortable compared to the one on other cameras.

October 6th, 2006, 08:42 AM	#58
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	One thing I forgot to ask...I've been shooting a documentary with a friend who has an XL2, and the damn thing turns itself off all the time. I'm wondering if these new Canons do the same thing and if so, is there any way to get in the menu and turn that off or make the camera stay on longer. With the XL2, you get a shot all ready, stand around until things are set, and the camera has switched off, and you have to rotate the dial all the way back to the off position, then back to manual and wait for it to fire up. That's the most annoying thing I've ever seen on a camera.

October 6th, 2006, 08:58 AM	#60
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Excellent--just like a "real" camera. That Sony V1 is going to have to really be something if they expect me to like it better than the Canon A1.