Which one would you buy?

David Lach · August 5th, 2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jenkins

I think the same reasons the G series always has been attractive, namely compact form, high end image quality and a lot less than the XL or HL series. Besides at the time I purchased my GL1 I was comparing it to my friends XL1 and the image quality was virtually indistinguishable. When I looked into lens rental, other than some awesome wide-angle lens, I could'nt really justify the 2-3k price difference for lens interchangeability, lack of XLR's is another story, and I could justify that...almost. I shot my short with the GL1 and never needed any other lenses, and its smaller size made it very convenient.

Anyway we now have a G series camera with the exact CCDs as its big brother, XLRs, 24F and even SDI out. It has all the good stuff, just packed into a smaller package with a fixed lens for 3k less (G1) ... -SDI 5k less! (A1).

Who wouldnt want this cam?

Well I can somewhat follow that reasoning, but why would you not want the A1 over the G1 then becomes the question.

You have to be into some pretty high end stuff (multi-cam rig with live editing or uncompressed editing) to need Gen lock or SDI out so I wonder, for the people needing those features, if they would really look at the 2K difference (which at the time the G1 comes out might not even be 2K) between the G1 and H1 as any sort of issue.

When you're talking about buying 2+ of those cams for mobile studio rigs and uncompressed projects, this 2K looks pretty insignificant and the full form factor and lens interchangeability that more important I would assume. People who see the 2K difference between the H1 and G1 as a major obstacle probably don't need the extra features and will likely buy the A1.

Again, maybe this reasoning is flawed, but I don't get why there's an in-between cam like the G1 and not just an A1 and an H1 for 2 very different markets. It's not really an issue of course, the more options the better, but I'm trying to understand Canon's logic.

Glenn Thomas · August 6th, 2006, 05:52 AM

Definitely the A1. An extra $3000(US) would amount to more than $4000 extra here in Australian dollars. That would buy me a killer workstation laptop!

I used to own an XL1 and later XM2, so I'm familiar with Canon cameras and love the look. Currently using a Sony HC1 which I like a lot, but the rolling shutter effect is slowly becoming a problem, especially with footage I've taken from a few fast moving trains. Time to get back to CCD's me thinks.

Tom Hardwick · August 6th, 2006, 09:12 AM

Rolling shutter effect? Can you explain further Glenn?

Philip Williams · August 6th, 2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

Rolling shutter effect? Can you explain further Glenn?

You can search this forum for 'hc1 rolling shutter' and find some interesting threads on it. Long story short, a CCD scans all pixels (odd or even line set in interlace, or the entire sensor in a progressive CCD) simultaneously so the image is an exact snapshot of a moment in time.

A CMOS sensor is scanned from top to bottom and all pixels are NOT scanned simulataneously. So the bottom of the image is scanned just a bit later than the top of the image. Normally this isn't perceptable, but on faster moving objects - especially if you freeze frame them - they appear to be "leaning".

So a square object speeding past a CMOS sensor will appear slightly trapezoidal (oh my, I hope I've got my shapes right..). Again, not normally a problem, but occasionally noticable on some shots.

www.philipwilliams.com

R.P. Cuenco · August 6th, 2006, 05:12 PM

parallelogram...ish :-)

Jack Jenkins · August 6th, 2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Lach

....Again, maybe this reasoning is flawed, but I don't get why there's an in-between cam like the G1 and not just an A1 and an H1 for 2 very different markets. It's not really an issue of course, the more options the better, but I'm trying to understand Canon's logic.

I am sure that the SDI jack thingy is an in factory add-on to the A1's so I dont really think its a big deal for Canon to release these two, its actually pretty smart design-wise. And it kinda scoops the andromeda folks.

Also I think Canon probably knows about some stuff coming down the pike that involves portable "SDI out" recording solutions. Or they just feel as I think most of us do that its just a matter of time before some cool portable sdi out recorder shows up.

David Lach · August 6th, 2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jenkins

Or they just feel as I think most of us do that its just a matter of time before some cool portable sdi out recorder shows up.

Well we can always dream now can we? ;-)

An affordable and portable sdi recorder would likely kill the big cams' market, not sure they're in a hurry to release that.

In any event, I can't wait to see these cams in action, as they might be the first HDV cams to make me think about retiring my trusty XL2s.

R.P. Cuenco · August 7th, 2006, 01:32 AM

would the expresscard slot on laptops coming out now be, in theory, fast enough to handle hd-sdi? a macbook pro portable recording solution could be insane.

Tyge Floyd · August 10th, 2006, 07:52 AM

I'll be buying an XH A1 to become my HD/backup SD rig when they come out. I'm excited about these cameras!

Ron Little · August 10th, 2006, 10:36 AM

I want two! As soon as they come out I will be selling my GL2, DVX and my hc1

Ben Bixby · August 11th, 2006, 08:35 PM

For only 4 grand with the 20x zoom, XL H1 hdv technology, and XLR really sells it for me. I'll be picking mine up as soon as it comes out, they sure beat Sony on this one!

Peter Macletis · August 12th, 2006, 01:26 AM

An A1, please!!! Can't wait till then... grrr... what is it???... October they say???... insomnias :)

Kevin Shaw · August 12th, 2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.P. Cuenco

would the expresscard slot on laptops coming out now be, in theory, fast enough to handle hd-sdi? a macbook pro portable recording solution could be insane.

I don't think a laptop setup would be capable of capturing uncompressed HD at the full 1.5 Gbps data rate, but you might be able to capture to something like the Cineform Prospect HD format. The next question would be whether there would be any way to fit an HD-SDI connector to a laptop; if not then a small "Shuttle" style computer would be a more suitable option.

David Ziegelheim · August 12th, 2006, 04:48 PM

I would like the HD-SDI...quite a bit actually...and the genlock, however not $3k worth. If spending that much I would spring the extra $2k for the H1. That is less than 30% more where the G1 is 75% more than the A1.

A1 has a nice point at or below the Z1, HD100/110, and HVX200...which was probably he idea.

Peter Jefferson · August 12th, 2006, 08:34 PM

I'll prolly jump ship to HDV (cack.. i know.. id prefer DHCproHD... but for my
work... anyways.. )

I have no need for SDI, Genlock or Time Code BNC jacks that are on the G1.. so i'll prolly grab a couple of A1's

even though HDV is not my cup of tea (and i know with SDI, i can run it into a laptop and capture straight to DVCPRoHD... yadd yadday.. but for my work, i sit on my tapes for months on end befor ei even START the work.. so this is not an option im afraid..

The fact remains these cameras SEEM to be what the HVX isnt.. with al the tweakability, and save for overcranking, more than likely image quality, if its anything liek the H1, would be surperior, bar from the imaging issues arroused by the recording format itself..
Ive never been one for canon gear.. theyve always had a specific canon look which i have always had issues with, but with THIS much tweakbility, then that can be overlooked and worked around.

I was pining for HVX units simply because of the existing Panasonic gear i have.. i KNOW the image quality and i cannot foult the lens whatsoever... for what it is i mean..
but DVCproHD and my NLE of choice dont play well together...
I was also looking at the HD101 becuase of its build, native 720p and clever focusing system.. but again, its a budget thing... and frankly, i trust canon moreover than i trust JVC.. (thats one of those industry insider attitudes i have.. )
Sony.. well i already have 2 Z1s which have bitterly dissapointed me.. moreso thatn any other piece of equipment i have ever purchased in my 13 years of working in the multimedia industry.. from synths to samplers, to rack mount gear, through to PC's still and video cameras, the Z1 has had to have been the worst decisions i have made with regard to progressive growth within my business...

View Poll Results: Between the XH G1 and XH A1, which one would you buy?
XH G1 for $7000, because I need the pro jacks and SDI.	40	10.00%
XH A1 for $4000, I don't need those pro jacks nor SDI.	360	90.00%
Voters: 400. You may not vote on this poll

August 6th, 2006, 05:12 PM	#65
R.P. Cuenco Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 118	parallelogram...ish :-) __________________ Letus35 Flip on HC1 FCP5 w/ Intel Mac Mini and Powerbook Ti G4

August 7th, 2006, 01:32 AM	#68
R.P. Cuenco Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 118	would the expresscard slot on laptops coming out now be, in theory, fast enough to handle hd-sdi? a macbook pro portable recording solution could be insane. __________________ Letus35 Flip on HC1 FCP5 w/ Intel Mac Mini and Powerbook Ti G4

August 10th, 2006, 07:52 AM	#69
Tyge Floyd Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ft. Worth, Texas Posts: 287	I'll be buying an XH A1 to become my HD/backup SD rig when they come out. I'm excited about these cameras! __________________ At full draw, Tyge Floyd

August 11th, 2006, 08:35 PM	#71
Ben Bixby Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 75	For only 4 grand with the 20x zoom, XL H1 hdv technology, and XLR really sells it for me. I'll be picking mine up as soon as it comes out, they sure beat Sony on this one! __________________ Ben Bixby benbixby@mac.com

August 6th, 2006, 05:52 AM	#62
Glenn Thomas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 320	Definitely the A1. An extra $3000(US) would amount to more than $4000 extra here in Australian dollars. That would buy me a killer workstation laptop! I used to own an XL1 and later XM2, so I'm familiar with Canon cameras and love the look. Currently using a Sony HC1 which I like a lot, but the rolling shutter effect is slowly becoming a problem, especially with footage I've taken from a few fast moving trains. Time to get back to CCD's me thinks.

August 6th, 2006, 09:12 AM	#63
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Rolling shutter effect? Can you explain further Glenn?

August 10th, 2006, 10:36 AM	#70
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	I want two! As soon as they come out I will be selling my GL2, DVX and my hc1

August 12th, 2006, 01:26 AM	#72
Peter Macletis Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NY Posts: 54	An A1, please!!! Can't wait till then... grrr... what is it???... October they say???... insomnias :)

August 12th, 2006, 04:48 PM	#74
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	I would like the HD-SDI...quite a bit actually...and the genlock, however not $3k worth. If spending that much I would spring the extra $2k for the H1. That is less than 30% more where the G1 is 75% more than the A1. A1 has a nice point at or below the Z1, HD100/110, and HVX200...which was probably he idea.

August 12th, 2006, 08:34 PM	#75
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	I'll prolly jump ship to HDV (cack.. i know.. id prefer DHCproHD... but for my work... anyways.. ) I have no need for SDI, Genlock or Time Code BNC jacks that are on the G1.. so i'll prolly grab a couple of A1's even though HDV is not my cup of tea (and i know with SDI, i can run it into a laptop and capture straight to DVCPRoHD... yadd yadday.. but for my work, i sit on my tapes for months on end befor ei even START the work.. so this is not an option im afraid.. The fact remains these cameras SEEM to be what the HVX isnt.. with al the tweakability, and save for overcranking, more than likely image quality, if its anything liek the H1, would be surperior, bar from the imaging issues arroused by the recording format itself.. Ive never been one for canon gear.. theyve always had a specific canon look which i have always had issues with, but with THIS much tweakbility, then that can be overlooked and worked around. I was pining for HVX units simply because of the existing Panasonic gear i have.. i KNOW the image quality and i cannot foult the lens whatsoever... for what it is i mean.. but DVCproHD and my NLE of choice dont play well together... I was also looking at the HD101 becuase of its build, native 720p and clever focusing system.. but again, its a budget thing... and frankly, i trust canon moreover than i trust JVC.. (thats one of those industry insider attitudes i have.. ) Sony.. well i already have 2 Z1s which have bitterly dissapointed me.. moreso thatn any other piece of equipment i have ever purchased in my 13 years of working in the multimedia industry.. from synths to samplers, to rack mount gear, through to PC's still and video cameras, the Z1 has had to have been the worst decisions i have made with regard to progressive growth within my business...