That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated at DVinfo.net

Larry Secrest · January 2nd, 2013, 08:33 AM

I've always been able to sell gear back to B&H

But today this is what they wrote back when I asked them if they'd buy back my XH-A1

"Thank you for submitting your list of merchandise for trade-in evaluation. Unfortunately, we have no market for, or are currently overstocked with the items you wish to sell. Subsequently, at this time we are unable to purchase the equipment which you have listed.
We trust that you will consider B&H for all your future Photographic, Video, and Professional Audio needs. B&H is one of the largest Photo & Video dealers in the country, and we look forward to your business in the future. "

No market for it, uh! Not even for 500 bucks?
Ouch!

Noa Put · January 2nd, 2013, 09:24 AM

I"m trying to sell my xh-a1 but have a very hard time getting rid of it, if you do a search on second hand camera's in Belgium several used xh-a1 pop up. I do have the advantage that mine comes with a sony hvr-dr60 but even then I seem to be stuck with it. There are also stores still selling the newer xh-a1s at a very low price, probably just to clear stock but they seem to be stuck with it as well.

I think the reason for this is that the canon sold at a price many could afford and it had the features many needed and Canon sold a lot of these, if you would have bhought a first gen Sony ex1 at double the price that would sell real easy, that's the price you pay for getting a cheap(er) camera.

Eric Olson · January 2nd, 2013, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I think the reason for this is that the canon sold at a price many could afford and it had the features many needed and Canon sold a lot of these, if you would have bhought a first gen Sony ex1 at double the price that would sell real easy, that's the price you pay for getting a cheap(er) camera.

Two difficulties selling an XHA1 is that Canon no longer services it and that it has no hour meter to tell how much it has been used. If my web search is correct

the XHA1 sold for $3500 in 2006 and today sells for $700;
the EX1 sold for $7500 in 2008 and today sells for $3500.

In terms of linear depreciation this means

the XHA1 lost $400 or 11.4% of its original value per year;
the EX1 lost $800 or is 10.4% of its original value per year.

As has been mentioned by others, the image quality of the XHA1 holds up well compared to current cameras in good lighting, but not so in low light. It is my understanding that improvements in current cameras result from CMOS sensors and digital filtering. Since computers have also increased in performance, many of the benefits of improved digital filtering can also be had by the XHA1 in post. It is amazing how much improvement a good motion tracking noise filter makes to low light XHA1 footage.

Noa Put · January 2nd, 2013, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Canon no longer services it

Are you sure about that? There are stores still selling the xh-a1s as new, meaning there is a 2 year warranty on it, in case of a malfunction Canon has to repair it.

Quote:

It is amazing how much improvement a good motion tracking noise filter makes to low light XHA1 footage.

Are you refering to plugins like neatvideo? The xh-a1 still performs image wise for me, just not when they turn down the light and anything I tried, like neatvideo, doesn't do the image much good. Compared to my little Sony cx730's it's like night and day. Otoh cmos is also not the holy grail, I have experienced some nasty banding with led lights that appear to affect cmos mainly but not ccd and to hold on to my xh-a1 just for that has crossed my mind but I rather sell it and spend that cash on accesoires. But as it looks right now it seems like it will stay another tool in my gearbox.

Eric Olson · January 2nd, 2013, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

There are stores still selling the xh-a1s as new, meaning there is a 2 year warranty on it, in case of a malfunction Canon has to repair it.

The XH-A1s is newer than the XH-A1 and still serviced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

anything I tried, like neatvideo, doesn't do the image much good.

I'm not sure about neatvideo. I was thinking of some of the noise filters in avisynth

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Extern...ters#Denoisers

They vary in quality, but some of the the spatio-temporal denoisers and hybrid filters based on motion estimation work very well.

Noa Put · January 2nd, 2013, 12:48 PM

Strange that they only service the new s version as both camera are basically the same, where did you get that info that the older xh-a1 model is not being serviced by Canon anymore?

About Avisynth denoisers, my experience tells me that if crap goes in crap has to come out again, even if it has a shiny layer on top of it. Denoisers work very well to a certain extent but if you have muddy looking images with very rough grain you will loose quite a lot after processing.

Ronald Jackson · January 2nd, 2013, 02:15 PM

I've got a XH-G1, which I use with a nanoFlash. The nano gives a new lease of life. I'm into wildlife video, and so many of the more modern cams have short zoom ranges.
With my G1, I've got about 600mm full 35mm equivalent at maximum zoom which I can boost to 900mm with my 1.5x "EX" teleconverter.
Also have a XLH1 as my main cam, coupled to a nano. G1 image quality not quite up to XLH1, but I do need to somehow or other match a bit vis custom pre-sets, duplicating those on my H1 doesn't work.

Ron

Noa Put · January 2nd, 2013, 02:23 PM

I think as far as resale value goes a XLH1 would hold value much better and sell easier, not sure how that goes for a XH-G1 which was much more expensive then a xh-a1.

Allan Black · January 2nd, 2013, 02:51 PM

Imo BnH are 'overstocked' because of impending fiscal cliff, tape cameras are slowly disappearing and unwanted Xmas presents,
can you imagine, they probably can't cope.

Larry, if you can also sell some new DV tapes, a new cleaner tape, a spare battery, along with some filters etc. then try ebay ..
or a local paper so folks can come and see and you can demonstrate the package.

Canon Australia still service the A1, just before Xmas a local guy got his serviced and I believe they changed the strap support
for the newer replacement one. They'll still send you a fax too.

XH A1 - Canon Australia

Cheers.

Eric Olson · January 2nd, 2013, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Strange that they only service the new s version as both camera are basically the same, where did you get that info that the older xh-a1 model is not being serviced by Canon anymore?

The reason I think Canon doesn't service XH-A1 is because I filled out the online repair form for an XH-A1 that was purchased in 2007 and the website said so. I haven't called to confirm.

Peter Manojlovic · January 2nd, 2013, 05:28 PM

Sorry, but around here, Canon sends to a third party repair shop. In fact, i go straight to the shop and skip the middleman altogether..If it's a warranty issue, the shop simply sends Canon the bill.

Eric Olson · January 2nd, 2013, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Manojlovic

Sorry, but around here, Canon sends to a third party repair shop. In fact, i go straight to the shop and skip the middleman altogether..If it's a warranty issue, the shop simply sends Canon the bill.

Yes, I should check into that. The sensor block in one camera was serviced a couple years ago and ever since then the white balance presets are too yellow. Manual white balance works fine so it is not a high priority, but for multicam shoots it would be nice if the presets matched.

Larry Secrest · January 2nd, 2013, 07:49 PM

I still love the image of my canon in broad day light or controlled lighting, so it's not that I wasn't happy with it, but you know, at a certain point, when you're not rolling on it and video is a hobby there's no point in having dozen pieces of equipment. One cam is enough. I was hoping to sell it and pay for half of a Panasonic Lumix GH3. I guess I'll keep my XH A1 for a while then.

Don Palomaki · January 3rd, 2013, 08:59 AM

Camcorder service support is normally based on the numeber of years after the model is discontinued in the product line, not when it was bought. Canon factory support was something like 7 years in the past, not sure what it is today.

Forget percents for a moment, They can mislead when costs differ substantially when the bottom line counts.
The XHA1 lost $2800 in value over 7 years and tied up $3500 - $400 per year
The EX1 lost $4000 in value over 5 years and tied up $8000 - $800 per year, and what will it be worth in another 2 years?

Assuming similar maintenance and consumable costs, which cost less to own over that period?

Of course, in the final analysis you also have to factor in any difference in revenue the camcorders produced over that period of time.

Jase Tanner · January 3rd, 2013, 11:33 AM

Peter
Can you tell me the name of the shop? No such 3rd party shop out here in
Vancouver afaik. Would have to send to Toronto even if canon was still servicing the
XH.

Thanks

January 2nd, 2013, 08:33 AM	#1
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated I've always been able to sell gear back to B&H But today this is what they wrote back when I asked them if they'd buy back my XH-A1 "Thank you for submitting your list of merchandise for trade-in evaluation. Unfortunately, we have no market for, or are currently overstocked with the items you wish to sell. Subsequently, at this time we are unable to purchase the equipment which you have listed. We trust that you will consider B&H for all your future Photographic, Video, and Professional Audio needs. B&H is one of the largest Photo & Video dealers in the country, and we look forward to your business in the future. " No market for it, uh! Not even for 500 bucks? Ouch!

January 2nd, 2013, 09:24 AM	#2
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated I"m trying to sell my xh-a1 but have a very hard time getting rid of it, if you do a search on second hand camera's in Belgium several used xh-a1 pop up. I do have the advantage that mine comes with a sony hvr-dr60 but even then I seem to be stuck with it. There are also stores still selling the newer xh-a1s at a very low price, probably just to clear stock but they seem to be stuck with it as well. I think the reason for this is that the canon sold at a price many could afford and it had the features many needed and Canon sold a lot of these, if you would have bhought a first gen Sony ex1 at double the price that would sell real easy, that's the price you pay for getting a cheap(er) camera.

January 2nd, 2013, 12:48 PM	#6
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated Strange that they only service the new s version as both camera are basically the same, where did you get that info that the older xh-a1 model is not being serviced by Canon anymore? About Avisynth denoisers, my experience tells me that if crap goes in crap has to come out again, even if it has a shiny layer on top of it. Denoisers work very well to a certain extent but if you have muddy looking images with very rough grain you will loose quite a lot after processing.

January 2nd, 2013, 02:15 PM	#7
Ronald Jackson Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Southport, United Kingdom Posts: 723	Re: That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated I've got a XH-G1, which I use with a nanoFlash. The nano gives a new lease of life. I'm into wildlife video, and so many of the more modern cams have short zoom ranges. With my G1, I've got about 600mm full 35mm equivalent at maximum zoom which I can boost to 900mm with my 1.5x "EX" teleconverter. Also have a XLH1 as my main cam, coupled to a nano. G1 image quality not quite up to XLH1, but I do need to somehow or other match a bit vis custom pre-sets, duplicating those on my H1 doesn't work. Ron

January 2nd, 2013, 02:23 PM	#8
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated I think as far as resale value goes a XLH1 would hold value much better and sell easier, not sure how that goes for a XH-G1 which was much more expensive then a xh-a1.

January 2nd, 2013, 02:51 PM	#9
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,937	Re: That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated Imo BnH are 'overstocked' because of impending fiscal cliff, tape cameras are slowly disappearing and unwanted Xmas presents, can you imagine, they probably can't cope. Larry, if you can also sell some new DV tapes, a new cleaner tape, a spare battery, along with some filters etc. then try ebay .. or a local paper so folks can come and see and you can demonstrate the package. Canon Australia still service the A1, just before Xmas a local guy got his serviced and I believe they changed the strap support for the newer replacement one. They'll still send you a fax too. XH A1 - Canon Australia Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

January 2nd, 2013, 05:28 PM	#11
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	Re: That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated Sorry, but around here, Canon sends to a third party repair shop. In fact, i go straight to the shop and skip the middleman altogether..If it's a warranty issue, the shop simply sends Canon the bill.

January 2nd, 2013, 07:49 PM	#13
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated I still love the image of my canon in broad day light or controlled lighting, so it's not that I wasn't happy with it, but you know, at a certain point, when you're not rolling on it and video is a hobby there's no point in having dozen pieces of equipment. One cam is enough. I was hoping to sell it and pay for half of a Panasonic Lumix GH3. I guess I'll keep my XH A1 for a while then.

January 3rd, 2013, 08:59 AM	#14
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	Re: That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated Camcorder service support is normally based on the numeber of years after the model is discontinued in the product line, not when it was bought. Canon factory support was something like 7 years in the past, not sure what it is today. Forget percents for a moment, They can mislead when costs differ substantially when the bottom line counts. The XHA1 lost $2800 in value over 7 years and tied up $3500 - $400 per year The EX1 lost $4000 in value over 5 years and tied up $8000 - $800 per year, and what will it be worth in another 2 years? Assuming similar maintenance and consumable costs, which cost less to own over that period? Of course, in the final analysis you also have to factor in any difference in revenue the camcorders produced over that period of time. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

January 3rd, 2013, 11:33 AM	#15
Jase Tanner Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 346	Re: That tells you how the XH-A1 is outdated Peter Can you tell me the name of the shop? No such 3rd party shop out here in Vancouver afaik. Would have to send to Toronto even if canon was still servicing the XH. Thanks