Best HD Setting for 400% Enlargement at DVinfo.net

Patrick Bienvenu · June 5th, 2011, 02:37 PM

Shooting a talking stationary stand up against green screen with XHA1 in HD 60i, o gain, 85z, 60 shutter. Output will be projected at about 400 percent. Even with 0 gain and good lighting, I continue to get considerable noise and distortion when I enlarge the the clip to 400% in FCP. Have tried 24F, 30F and 60I seems to be the clearest when the image is enlarged. I have only allowed slight facial zebra at 85. The face & eyes is where I need the max quality. I know there is a "skin" setting on the XHA1 but have never used it.

I need to get max resolution, quality. Anyway to squeeze more resolution better quality for a 4x blow up using the XHA1? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Rick L. Allen · June 5th, 2011, 04:15 PM

You can't create resolution that isn't there. You're recording to HDV tape which compresses the video data by a factor of about 10 then trying to blow up highly compressed image data by 400%. You could shoot with a Sony F3, RED, etc to hard drives in an uncompressed format for a higher resolution image but you can't go any further with the XHA1.

Jack Zhang · June 5th, 2011, 05:28 PM

If you have an Intensity Shuttle handy, that can capture uncompressed via the Component cable on the XHA1. You'll need a fast enough capture drive though.

I'd capture exclusively in 30F to ensure progressive frames are recorded.

Gregory Gesch · June 5th, 2011, 05:47 PM

Hi Patrick. As Rick says you can't create resolution that isn't there. My only suggestion would be to try Neat Video which may smooth the gradations out (?) but I'm talking off the top of my head here. There is a trial version:
Neat Video - best noise reduction for digital video

Patrick Bienvenu · June 5th, 2011, 06:55 PM

Good info. I am capturing direct to a Focus FS-C then copying the files directly into FCP. I was assuming that there is no compression in that process - but it looks like there is.

Jack - what is shuttle intensity and why 30F vs 60i regarding quality of resolution? Test footage looks slightly better in 60i? What shutter speed would you recommend at 30F?

Also, someone recommended shooting in portrait to get as many pixels as possible which would require turning the camera and projector sideways - which could be done. Also, if there is a way to shoot 4:3 in HD on the XHA1 - would that effectively squeeze more pixels in and thus create a higher resolution. Guess I am pushing this camera to the max.

Appreciate any more thoughts you may have. Thanks.

Eric Olson · June 5th, 2011, 11:32 PM

The sensors in the XHA1 are interlaced by design. Shooting in 30F or 24F will cut the resulting resolution by almost 50%. However, if you need real-time projection, the deinterlacing done in-camera to get 30F is about as good as you'll get.

If you don't need real-time, then you can do much better than 30F mode by shooting 60i and using super resolution techniques in post to obtain progressive 8MP frames. An amusing comparison of image resizing tools appears at

Video resizing methods comparison
Super Resolution From a Single Image

Dan Isaac's sd2hd avisynth script with ScaleMethod=3 and DeintMethod=2 uses motion compensated deinterlacing followed by smart database directed rescaling to obtain results that in my opinion are as good as the best in the above comparisons.

http://3dvp.com/hd2sd_sd2hd.zip

If you plan on using sd2hd, modify it to use the new and faster NNEDI3 in place of NNEDI2.

Noa Put · June 7th, 2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

The sensors in the XHA1 are interlaced by design. Shooting in 30F or 24F will cut the resulting resolution by almost 50%.

That's new to me, why is it then when I test shoot the same image in interlaced and progressive mode they look equally sharp on a big full hd screen, same if I compare them in my nle where I can't see any difference when I compare frames, loosing half the resolution would clearly show, no?

Eric Olson · June 7th, 2011, 07:36 PM

One reference is

Canon XH A1Adam Wilt, Adam Wilt, Adam Wilt

where it is stated that the XH-A1 resolves about 800 lines in interlaced mode and about 540 in frame mode. To visually see the extra spatial resolution of a 60i recording on a progressive scan television you will need to use something other than the television's built-in deinterlacing circuitry, which is likely worse than what the XH-A1 does in 30F mode. This is why I agree with your recommendation of 30F mode unless you can afford the time in post to more carefully deinterlace the frames.

June 5th, 2011, 02:37 PM	#1
Patrick Bienvenu New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 23	Best HD Setting for 400% Enlargement Shooting a talking stationary stand up against green screen with XHA1 in HD 60i, o gain, 85z, 60 shutter. Output will be projected at about 400 percent. Even with 0 gain and good lighting, I continue to get considerable noise and distortion when I enlarge the the clip to 400% in FCP. Have tried 24F, 30F and 60I seems to be the clearest when the image is enlarged. I have only allowed slight facial zebra at 85. The face & eyes is where I need the max quality. I know there is a "skin" setting on the XHA1 but have never used it. I need to get max resolution, quality. Anyway to squeeze more resolution better quality for a 4x blow up using the XHA1? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

June 5th, 2011, 04:15 PM	#2
Rick L. Allen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 536	Re: Best HD Setting for 400% Enlargement You can't create resolution that isn't there. You're recording to HDV tape which compresses the video data by a factor of about 10 then trying to blow up highly compressed image data by 400%. You could shoot with a Sony F3, RED, etc to hard drives in an uncompressed format for a higher resolution image but you can't go any further with the XHA1. __________________ "The good thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not." Neil deGrasse Tyson https://www.nautilusproductions.com/

June 5th, 2011, 05:28 PM	#3
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: Best HD Setting for 400% Enlargement If you have an Intensity Shuttle handy, that can capture uncompressed via the Component cable on the XHA1. You'll need a fast enough capture drive though. I'd capture exclusively in 30F to ensure progressive frames are recorded.

June 5th, 2011, 05:47 PM	#4
Gregory Gesch Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 114	Re: Best HD Setting for 400% Enlargement Hi Patrick. As Rick says you can't create resolution that isn't there. My only suggestion would be to try Neat Video which may smooth the gradations out (?) but I'm talking off the top of my head here. There is a trial version: Neat Video - best noise reduction for digital video

June 5th, 2011, 06:55 PM	#5
Patrick Bienvenu New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 23	Re: Best HD Setting for 400% Enlargement Good info. I am capturing direct to a Focus FS-C then copying the files directly into FCP. I was assuming that there is no compression in that process - but it looks like there is. Jack - what is shuttle intensity and why 30F vs 60i regarding quality of resolution? Test footage looks slightly better in 60i? What shutter speed would you recommend at 30F? Also, someone recommended shooting in portrait to get as many pixels as possible which would require turning the camera and projector sideways - which could be done. Also, if there is a way to shoot 4:3 in HD on the XHA1 - would that effectively squeeze more pixels in and thus create a higher resolution. Guess I am pushing this camera to the max. Appreciate any more thoughts you may have. Thanks.

June 5th, 2011, 11:32 PM	#6
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Best HD Setting for 400% Enlargement The sensors in the XHA1 are interlaced by design. Shooting in 30F or 24F will cut the resulting resolution by almost 50%. However, if you need real-time projection, the deinterlacing done in-camera to get 30F is about as good as you'll get. If you don't need real-time, then you can do much better than 30F mode by shooting 60i and using super resolution techniques in post to obtain progressive 8MP frames. An amusing comparison of image resizing tools appears at Video resizing methods comparison Super Resolution From a Single Image Dan Isaac's sd2hd avisynth script with ScaleMethod=3 and DeintMethod=2 uses motion compensated deinterlacing followed by smart database directed rescaling to obtain results that in my opinion are as good as the best in the above comparisons. http://3dvp.com/hd2sd_sd2hd.zip If you plan on using sd2hd, modify it to use the new and faster NNEDI3 in place of NNEDI2. Last edited by Eric Olson; June 6th, 2011 at 12:57 PM.

June 7th, 2011, 07:36 PM	#8
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Best HD Setting for 400% Enlargement One reference is Canon XH A1Adam Wilt, Adam Wilt, Adam Wilt where it is stated that the XH-A1 resolves about 800 lines in interlaced mode and about 540 in frame mode. To visually see the extra spatial resolution of a 60i recording on a progressive scan television you will need to use something other than the television's built-in deinterlacing circuitry, which is likely worse than what the XH-A1 does in 30F mode. This is why I agree with your recommendation of 30F mode unless you can afford the time in post to more carefully deinterlace the frames. Last edited by Eric Olson; June 7th, 2011 at 11:46 PM.