Lavalier+Onboard MIC simultaneously? at DVinfo.net

Victor Boyko · February 6th, 2011, 12:20 AM

Is it possible to record with more than one mic on the xha1 at the same time? How can i record with my lavalier mic and the onboard mic at the same time? What happens, it mixes the 2 audio? Will it sound good?

I didnt even think it was possible until now.

Colin McDonald · February 6th, 2011, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Is it possible to record with more than one mic on the xha1 at the same time?

Yes, but see below.

Quote:

How can I record with my lavalier mic and the onboard mic at the same time?

You can't.

What you will need to do is to connect your lav to one XLR input and another external mic to the other. If you really must have an on-camera mic, you could mount it on the camera, preferably with a shockmount and not directly on the mic holder. It's better if you place your other mic as near the sound source as possible as mics on the camera will not do the best job.

Quote:

What happens, it mixes the 2 audio?

You need to switch your audio level to M so that you can set the levels of the 2 mics plugged in to your XLR inputs with the CH1 and CH 2 dials.

Quote:

Will it sound good?

No reason why not if you place your mics carefully and check the levels when setting up, and continue to monitor while recording.

Hope this is helpful to you, but I have to say this is all included in the manual. There are links in the stickies here where you can download the pdf manual and locate the bit you need very quickly by using the Adobe Reader 'find' function.

Kevin Lewis · February 6th, 2011, 01:19 PM

When using 2 mics (one in each xlr) you dont nessasarily have to go manual. I have always found that the xha1 has a great audio system and that using audio in auto mode does a good job. If your filming a wedding or other live event, manual adjusting can be tough.

Colin McDonald · February 6th, 2011, 01:49 PM

I know what you mean Kevin, and I have occasionally done that, but the XH-A1 does not set the levels separately for each track, so unless you have well matched mics and input levels one channel could be way too low.

I adjust the AF out level setting on my Senny radiomic receiver and use the CH1 or 2 attenuator to try to match the input level of the other mic if I'm using auto level.

Kevin Lewis · February 6th, 2011, 09:16 PM

Colin you are indeed correct. I typcally adjust the levels in post.

Victor Boyko · February 7th, 2011, 09:43 PM

wait..so I just want to be clear before I go buy a shotgun mic. I have a seinheisser lavalier system. So if on my XH A1 I hook up my wireless mic in channel 1 and a shotgun in mic in channel 2, it will record both audios at same time to the dv tape? It mixes the audio? I hope it sounds ok. Also is that stereo or mono. (not that i would care much, just curious)

Michael Hutson · February 8th, 2011, 01:03 PM

Yes, you can use the wireless lav and shotgun at the same time. (CH1 &CH2)..you will then have the option to mix or maintain seperate channels on the tape.

Colin McDonald · February 8th, 2011, 01:18 PM

With the lav and CH1 and a shotgun on CH2 you will record both as separate mono channels on the camera. They will come out separately left and right as you monitor on headphones, but you will probably want to mix and pan them in your editing programme to create a stereo image. For example you might wish to put the lav right of centre and the shotgun left of centre. Leaving them panned hard left and right will not sound natural.

Victor Boyko · February 8th, 2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin McDonald

With the lav and CH1 and a shotgun on CH2 you will record both as separate mono channels on the camera. They will come out separately left and right as you monitor on headphones, but you will probably want to mix and pan them in your editing programme to create a stereo image. For example you might wish to put the lav right of centre and the shotgun left of centre. Leaving them panned hard left and right will not sound natural.

can you please explain the "panning" in greater detail? You mean when I'm filming I dont want the mics dead center?

Colin McDonald · February 9th, 2011, 02:46 PM

Your mics should be placed where they each pick up the best sound. You mentioned a lavalier mic, presumably to pick up somebody speaking. You will find advice for fitting lavs in various places like How to Use a Lav Microphone Video ? 5min.com or this one below

Any other mic used should be placed close to, and pointed at, the source of the sound.

'Panning' refers to the use of the controls on a physical or software virtual mixer to place a mono signal either equally to the left and right, or the one side more more than the other in the stereo image.

You can't 'pan' the signal while recording unless you are using a mixer between the mics and the camera.

You are hoping to record two separate mono channels into the camera. During the editing process you can mix them, which will include amongst other things, deciding the relative levels and panning of each track.

Rob Harlan · February 11th, 2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin McDonald

If you really must have an on-camera mic, you could mount it on the camera, preferably with a shockmount and not directly on the mic holder.

I use a Rode Videomic on my XH-A1s, and occasionally suffer from the 'creaking' noise which is picked up from the mic wobbling around within its rubber shock absorber brackets if the camera is moved.

Some online research confirms this is a common issue with these mics, and possible solutions if replacing the rubbers doesn't work include soaking them in small amounts of grease/oil and drying out.

However an alternative method I am looking at is attaching the Rode into the mic holder on the XH-A1s. It will fit once I have unscrewed the shockmounting block, though I will have to either crush in the first inch or so of the foam casing or cut it off to screw down the mic holding bracket.

Any reason not to run the Rode from the camera's mic holder? I've never been happy with the 'wobbling' of the mic in its shockmount (even without the creaking), and it will of course also free up the accessory shoe for something else such as onboard light etc.

Colin McDonald · February 11th, 2011, 02:35 PM

Can't say I've suffered from creaking or wobbling myself, even though I am getting on a bit :-)

I did use the built in mic holder when I first got the camera but I found it picked up the focus/zoom servo noise very clearly, so I went for shockmounts on the hotshoe or on a bracket attached to the tripod bush. There are better ones than the Rode SM3, though I find it works perfectly well with the camera mounted on a tripod or handheld steadily. I suppose it might depend on how much you need move the camera while shooting.

David Chilson · February 12th, 2011, 10:16 AM

I used one of these and it freed up the top shoe mount, isolated the rode and gave me another mount for a wireless.

The J-Rod Twin Mount Microphone and Accessory Mount For Your Video Camera

Mark Fry · February 16th, 2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor Boyko

How can i record with my lavalier mic and the onboard mic at the same time?

If you have an XH-A1s, you can do this. If you have the older XH-A1, then you can't. The XH-A1s manual explains it. The on-board mic will be recorded in mono on one track, the external mic on the other, and you mix them later, during the edit. Be aware that the on-board mic has a wide pick-up pattern - great for general background atmosphere, especially close to the camera position, but not good for picking out a more distant sound source.

As for removing a Rode Videomic from it's creaky built-in shock-mount - I know a chap who did this and put it inside a home made "blimp". It works pretty well. I'm not sure that I'd put it directly in the round mic-holder, though. Get a separate shock-mount. Rode do a couple of cheap-ish but perfectly serviceable mounts for hot-shoe or ring-clamp. J-rod is more expensive but possibly better made.

Taky Cheung · February 20th, 2011, 11:50 AM

I also have a voice recorder with a wired lav mic dangling in front of the speaker. The output is great! Just have to sync the extra audio clip in post. It's very easy.

Just at yesterday's wedding, I told the DJ I will have my voice recorder placed on top of his speaker. He told me many videographers do the same these days.

This is another I have the Zoom recorder positioned in front of the speaker. The sound quality is amazing.

I don't like sound getting directly from the DJ console. It's too dry for my taste. There is no live ambience sound.

February 6th, 2011, 12:20 AM	#1
Victor Boyko Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: binghamton ny Posts: 82	Lavalier+Onboard MIC simultaneously? Is it possible to record with more than one mic on the xha1 at the same time? How can i record with my lavalier mic and the onboard mic at the same time? What happens, it mixes the 2 audio? Will it sound good? I didnt even think it was possible until now.

February 9th, 2011, 02:46 PM	#10
Colin McDonald Trustee Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 1,546	Your mics should be placed where they each pick up the best sound. You mentioned a lavalier mic, presumably to pick up somebody speaking. You will find advice for fitting lavs in various places like How to Use a Lav Microphone Video ? 5min.com or this one below RODE Lavalier Microphone on Vimeo Any other mic used should be placed close to, and pointed at, the source of the sound. 'Panning' refers to the use of the controls on a physical or software virtual mixer to place a mono signal either equally to the left and right, or the one side more more than the other in the stereo image. You can't 'pan' the signal while recording unless you are using a mixer between the mics and the camera. You are hoping to record two separate mono channels into the camera. During the editing process you can mix them, which will include amongst other things, deciding the relative levels and panning of each track.

February 12th, 2011, 10:16 AM	#13
David Chilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Walworth, NY Posts: 292	I used one of these and it freed up the top shoe mount, isolated the rode and gave me another mount for a wireless. The J-Rod Twin Mount Microphone and Accessory Mount For Your Video Camera __________________ Dave Chilson www.loc.org

February 20th, 2011, 11:50 AM	#15
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	I also have a voice recorder with a wired lav mic dangling in front of the speaker. The output is great! Just have to sync the extra audio clip in post. It's very easy. Onboard Shotgun Mic vs Sound Recorder with Wired Lav Mic on Vimeo Just at yesterday's wedding, I told the DJ I will have my voice recorder placed on top of his speaker. He told me many videographers do the same these days. This is another I have the Zoom recorder positioned in front of the speaker. The sound quality is amazing. Comer CM-LBPS1800 LED Light Spotlight Mode at Wedding Reception on Vimeo I don't like sound getting directly from the DJ console. It's too dry for my taste. There is no live ambience sound. __________________ LA Color Pros Blog RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator

February 6th, 2011, 01:19 PM	#3
Kevin Lewis Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Philadelphia, pa Posts: 705	When using 2 mics (one in each xlr) you dont nessasarily have to go manual. I have always found that the xha1 has a great audio system and that using audio in auto mode does a good job. If your filming a wedding or other live event, manual adjusting can be tough.

February 6th, 2011, 01:49 PM	#4
Colin McDonald Trustee Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 1,546	I know what you mean Kevin, and I have occasionally done that, but the XH-A1 does not set the levels separately for each track, so unless you have well matched mics and input levels one channel could be way too low. I adjust the AF out level setting on my Senny radiomic receiver and use the CH1 or 2 attenuator to try to match the input level of the other mic if I'm using auto level.

February 6th, 2011, 09:16 PM	#5
Kevin Lewis Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Philadelphia, pa Posts: 705	Colin you are indeed correct. I typcally adjust the levels in post.

February 7th, 2011, 09:43 PM	#6
Victor Boyko Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: binghamton ny Posts: 82	wait..so I just want to be clear before I go buy a shotgun mic. I have a seinheisser lavalier system. So if on my XH A1 I hook up my wireless mic in channel 1 and a shotgun in mic in channel 2, it will record both audios at same time to the dv tape? It mixes the audio? I hope it sounds ok. Also is that stereo or mono. (not that i would care much, just curious)

February 8th, 2011, 01:03 PM	#7
Michael Hutson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 249	Yes, you can use the wireless lav and shotgun at the same time. (CH1 &CH2)..you will then have the option to mix or maintain seperate channels on the tape.

February 8th, 2011, 01:18 PM	#8
Colin McDonald Trustee Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 1,546	With the lav and CH1 and a shotgun on CH2 you will record both as separate mono channels on the camera. They will come out separately left and right as you monitor on headphones, but you will probably want to mix and pan them in your editing programme to create a stereo image. For example you might wish to put the lav right of centre and the shotgun left of centre. Leaving them panned hard left and right will not sound natural.

February 11th, 2011, 02:35 PM	#12
Colin McDonald Trustee Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 1,546	Can't say I've suffered from creaking or wobbling myself, even though I am getting on a bit :-) I did use the built in mic holder when I first got the camera but I found it picked up the focus/zoom servo noise very clearly, so I went for shockmounts on the hotshoe or on a bracket attached to the tripod bush. There are better ones than the Rode SM3, though I find it works perfectly well with the camera mounted on a tripod or handheld steadily. I suppose it might depend on how much you need move the camera while shooting.