need help answering a few questions at DVinfo.net

Oliver Darden · January 26th, 2010, 10:29 PM

I am doing a 2 camera shoot this Saturday and the primary camera is an XHA1 and the 2nd camera will be a XH-G1. The camera operator is asking some questions I can't answer, and I thought you all could help.

His questions are:
I assume we're shooting in non-drop frame timecode, HD, 24F. (but which 24F mode?) (2:3:3:2 Mode?)

I assume we're using record run timecode?

Should I do anything with the Skin Detail function?

Any help on this is greatly appreciated.

Garrett Low · January 26th, 2010, 11:19 PM

The XH A1 and XH G1 are identicle cameras except for the extra signal output capabilities and Genlock on the XH G1. So just choose a preset and then copy it to both cameras. When I was shooting with an XH A1 I used the default skin detail setting. Whether you shot 24F, 30F or 60i is up to you and should be determined by the needs of the shoot and what you want the end product to look like.

The Canon doesn't insert pull down in it 24F mode so there is no choice between 3:2 or 2:3:3:2 pull down.

For multicam shoots I use non-drop continuous run timecodes. Try to synch them up before the start of the shoot as close as you can. I can usually get up to three cameras synch'd to within a few frames. Then I have all cameras continuously rolling. that way I only have to try to resynch at tape changes. That's where continuous run timecodes come in. Once you determine how many frames off each camera is, resynching is easy.

Oliver Darden · January 26th, 2010, 11:47 PM

Thanks for the info Garret.

What do you mean when you say "just choose a preset and then copy it to both cameras."

I don't think I have ever used presets. I normally set the camera to manual mode, white balance, set my aperture, do a 1/60 shutter and go. If I do this same thing to the XH G1, do you think that will be fine? I don't need the camera synced for any reason, I just want the footage to look (colors, resolution, fps, shutter etc) the same so I wont have any issues when I work with the it in FCP later down the road.

Garrett Low · January 27th, 2010, 12:18 AM

Hi Oliver,

One of the great appeals of the Canon XH and XL series of cameras is that you can customize the way the camera's picture looks. Look at this post:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh...rary-copy.html

You can copy the settings from one camera to the other via the SDHC card. That will make the cameras match as closely as possible. It really depends on how you want the picture to look. In order to make the cameras match you need to make sure that all of the customizable settings are the same on both cameras, or turn off the presets.

If you're going to be using 24F you should probably shoot at 1/48th.

-Garrett

Oliver Darden · January 27th, 2010, 12:24 AM

1/48th?? Really???Why?

I've shot the entire movie (over 30 hours of footage) at 1/60 so far....

Garrett Low · January 27th, 2010, 01:36 AM

Typically you'd try to set your Shutter to be 180 degrees out of your frame rate. i.e. 30fps (which is what 60i ends up really being) you'd shoot 1/60th, 1/120, etc. For 24 fps you usually would use 1/48th. This matches the shutter behavior that is usually used in film cameras so it will yield a familiar look.

Some cameras actually allow you to set the shutter speed by selecting the shutter angle.

-Garrett

Oliver Darden · January 27th, 2010, 09:34 AM

So what kind of issues am I going to run into now that I shot all my footage at the wrong shutter speed?

Phil Taylor · January 27th, 2010, 11:42 AM

You said "So what kind of issues am I going to run into now that I shot all my footage at the wrong shutter speed? "

I don't believe you will have any issues. Do what you need to in post and don't worry about it!

Garrett Low · January 27th, 2010, 02:55 PM

Hi Oliver,

I didn't mean to alarm you. You didn't use the wrong shutter speed, just one that is not as commonly used. Review your footage and as long as it looks the way you want it is fine. Sometimes the motion blur can look a little unnatural or you could get judder. You're most likely fine. I'd continue using the same setting as you started out with.

-Garrett

Michael Hutson · January 27th, 2010, 03:05 PM

Garret is correct with the shutter speeds for the different frame rates....He is stating the "rule of thumb" ....try to use multiples of the frame rate, if you know what I mean. I don't shoot any other way so I could not tell you how it effects your footage. There is a thread buried in here somewhere discussing it, if you are interested. Recommend using the "search feature" Good Luck.

Oliver Darden · February 2nd, 2010, 02:23 PM

Sorry for the late reply. I went and did the shoot and everything went well.

Thanks for the info guys.

January 26th, 2010, 10:29 PM	#1
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	need help answering a few questions I am doing a 2 camera shoot this Saturday and the primary camera is an XHA1 and the 2nd camera will be a XH-G1. The camera operator is asking some questions I can't answer, and I thought you all could help. His questions are: I assume we're shooting in non-drop frame timecode, HD, 24F. (but which 24F mode?) (2:3:3:2 Mode?) I assume we're using record run timecode? Should I do anything with the Skin Detail function? Any help on this is greatly appreciated.

January 27th, 2010, 11:42 AM	#8
Phil Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Victor, Montana Posts: 61	Answering a few questions You said "So what kind of issues am I going to run into now that I shot all my footage at the wrong shutter speed? " I don't believe you will have any issues. Do what you need to in post and don't worry about it!

January 26th, 2010, 11:19 PM	#2
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	The XH A1 and XH G1 are identicle cameras except for the extra signal output capabilities and Genlock on the XH G1. So just choose a preset and then copy it to both cameras. When I was shooting with an XH A1 I used the default skin detail setting. Whether you shot 24F, 30F or 60i is up to you and should be determined by the needs of the shoot and what you want the end product to look like. The Canon doesn't insert pull down in it 24F mode so there is no choice between 3:2 or 2:3:3:2 pull down. For multicam shoots I use non-drop continuous run timecodes. Try to synch them up before the start of the shoot as close as you can. I can usually get up to three cameras synch'd to within a few frames. Then I have all cameras continuously rolling. that way I only have to try to resynch at tape changes. That's where continuous run timecodes come in. Once you determine how many frames off each camera is, resynching is easy.

January 26th, 2010, 11:47 PM	#3
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Thanks for the info Garret. What do you mean when you say "just choose a preset and then copy it to both cameras." I don't think I have ever used presets. I normally set the camera to manual mode, white balance, set my aperture, do a 1/60 shutter and go. If I do this same thing to the XH G1, do you think that will be fine? I don't need the camera synced for any reason, I just want the footage to look (colors, resolution, fps, shutter etc) the same so I wont have any issues when I work with the it in FCP later down the road.

January 27th, 2010, 12:18 AM	#4
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Hi Oliver, One of the great appeals of the Canon XH and XL series of cameras is that you can customize the way the camera's picture looks. Look at this post: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh...rary-copy.html You can copy the settings from one camera to the other via the SDHC card. That will make the cameras match as closely as possible. It really depends on how you want the picture to look. In order to make the cameras match you need to make sure that all of the customizable settings are the same on both cameras, or turn off the presets. If you're going to be using 24F you should probably shoot at 1/48th. -Garrett

January 27th, 2010, 12:24 AM	#5
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	1/48th?? Really???Why? I've shot the entire movie (over 30 hours of footage) at 1/60 so far....

January 27th, 2010, 01:36 AM	#6
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Typically you'd try to set your Shutter to be 180 degrees out of your frame rate. i.e. 30fps (which is what 60i ends up really being) you'd shoot 1/60th, 1/120, etc. For 24 fps you usually would use 1/48th. This matches the shutter behavior that is usually used in film cameras so it will yield a familiar look. Some cameras actually allow you to set the shutter speed by selecting the shutter angle. -Garrett

January 27th, 2010, 09:34 AM	#7
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	So what kind of issues am I going to run into now that I shot all my footage at the wrong shutter speed?

January 27th, 2010, 02:55 PM	#9
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Hi Oliver, I didn't mean to alarm you. You didn't use the wrong shutter speed, just one that is not as commonly used. Review your footage and as long as it looks the way you want it is fine. Sometimes the motion blur can look a little unnatural or you could get judder. You're most likely fine. I'd continue using the same setting as you started out with. -Garrett

January 27th, 2010, 03:05 PM	#10
Michael Hutson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 249	Garret is correct with the shutter speeds for the different frame rates....He is stating the "rule of thumb" ....try to use multiples of the frame rate, if you know what I mean. I don't shoot any other way so I could not tell you how it effects your footage. There is a thread buried in here somewhere discussing it, if you are interested. Recommend using the "search feature" Good Luck.

February 2nd, 2010, 02:23 PM	#11
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Sorry for the late reply. I went and did the shoot and everything went well. Thanks for the info guys.