ND On/Off warnings at DVinfo.net

Kees van Duijvenbode · August 17th, 2009, 06:44 AM

Is it true that the A1 can warn me to use the ND filter by flashing ND On and warn me to switch it off by flashing ND Off? My A1 doesn't warn me for ND.

Oren Arieli · August 17th, 2009, 10:24 AM

Doubtful, I have yet to see such a warning on the XH-A1, nor is there a menu option for this. My suggestion, shoot in shutter-priority mode and allow the camera to adjust the shutter speed when you've got too much light (and forgot to set your ND filter). Better yet, do as the pros do, set your iris manually and use zebras to let you know when you're overexposing important parts of the image. This gives you the benefit of a f-stop readout on the LCD. If you find yourself closing down to f-9, its time to up the ND.

Peter Manojlovic · August 17th, 2009, 10:30 AM

The manual says there's warnings, and i've received them myself...

Of course, these are extreme situations, in where you're Exposure lock might be set, and have unwittingly opened up the ND to the first setting...But it's definately not a common occurence..Your Zebra stripes would be the first hint of trouble...

Colin Reid · August 17th, 2009, 12:10 PM

See page 39 of the instruction manual.

Also be aware that several other pages have "Precautions related to the camcorder operation." entries which refer to the ND filter.

The easiest way to find all these entries (and the entries for any other subjects for that matter), is to download the manual in pdf format and use "Find" (under the Edit menu).

Bo Sundvall · August 18th, 2009, 01:00 AM

Hi

I'm more or less sure that ND warnings never will show up in M (Manual) mode. I use M most of the time but sometime I've used other modes and seen the ND filter warning flash. Side 31 in the manual says:

"When using a recording program other than M Manual and if the AGC switch is set to ON, the following displays appears: "

followed by a list of different ND warnings, either to activate or deactivate ND filters depending on what the camcorder think is the best.

Regards,

/Bo

Sean Finnegan · August 18th, 2009, 01:59 AM

Now that you mention it, I think the XH-A1 does do that. I remember having that experience a long time ago when I first got my XH-A1 but since I rarely trust the cam's auto settings, I turned it off. And now I don't know how to turn it back on because I would never use it anyway. Just extra stuff on the display that makes the image harder to see.

Pavel Sedlak · August 18th, 2009, 02:56 PM

Yes, warning is true. But it is warning only if ND filter is not right switched.

Darin Clifton · August 18th, 2009, 06:20 PM

The camera will flash ND when it needs it - and flash in red when it must be reset or turned off. Be careful of shooting in very bright sunlight without the ND - or ignoring it. See the note on blurred images related to use/non use of the ND. ( Mode was auto, auto gain, auto iris )

I have had this problem show up on a shoot where the producer didn't want any tapes viewed until they were captured .. Problem - shoot was in Wyoming ; producer in Kentucky didn't look at the footage until 6 months later. There were 3 shots out of 6 tapes that were blurry due to this issue - but they could have easily been THE ones I needed.

Taky Cheung · August 20th, 2009, 10:35 AM

I always follow the ND flashing icon with the XH-A1. I'm not sure if it's my camera, if I have ND filter on, in bright day light, there're more visible noise. What should i do? Should I try resetting the camera?

Peter Manojlovic · August 20th, 2009, 12:47 PM

Personally, i'll hit the Exposure lock button to tell me my current Fstop under the current lighting conditions. F4.0 or F5.6 is the sweet spot..If it's too low or high, i reset my HD filter and redo the above for good measure...It's just as fast and easy for my EVF+Zebra stripes tell me approximately where i should be...

As for noise, i've noticed that the footage looks a bit softer with the ND filter set to max. Regardless of exposure..Perhaps it's just me.

Taky Cheung · August 20th, 2009, 12:49 PM

Oh it's not just you. I have such problem too. Once time I did a wedding in a bright sunny day. The footage got very noisy.

Richard Hunter · August 20th, 2009, 04:07 PM

I see this sometimes as well, but I put it down to the camera getting hot in the Singapore sunshine and degrading the sensor operation. Haven't done any proper tests on this though.

Richard

Colin Reid · August 20th, 2009, 06:38 PM

Hi Richard, Taky and Peter,

The first paragraph under the heading "Using the ND Filter" in the instruction manual reads:

"When recording in bright surroundings, the camcorder will set a small aperture value and the picture may appear blurred. Turn the ND filter on/off according to the screen display."

This section then goes on to say in part:

"When using a recording program other than M Manual and if the AGC switch is set to ON,....:"

So, the softness (looks slightly out of focus) can come from not turning the ND filter on.

As to the noise, since the ND filter warning only operates when recording in other than Manual and the AGC switch is set to ON, then the noise may be coming from the AGC setting you have previously input.

In any case, in very bright sunlight the maximum inbuilt ND filter may still not be enough to cope with the bright light, so you might consider investing in some external ND filters so that you have more effective control of the camera when using one of the automatic modes.

It does go on to say in the instruction manual, ""If you have no external ND filter available, use the Tv mode and set a high shutter speed,...." which might alleviate the problem, but still leaves you in the situation where the settings used automatically by the camera may still not cope effectively with the bright light.

Hope this helps.

Colin

Taky Cheung · August 20th, 2009, 08:53 PM

Colin,

Thank you so much for your insight. I'm just glad there're so many knowledagable people here. I will kick away my bad AUTO mode habit start practicing using Tv mode you suggest.

Taky

Tripp Woelfel · August 20th, 2009, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Sundvall

I'm more or less sure that ND warnings never will show up in M (Manual) mode.

Not precisely true. I've seen the warning in manual mode.

August 17th, 2009, 06:44 AM	#1
Kees van Duijvenbode Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 246	ND On/Off warnings Is it true that the A1 can warn me to use the ND filter by flashing ND On and warn me to switch it off by flashing ND Off? My A1 doesn't warn me for ND. __________________ www.cvd-video.nl

August 18th, 2009, 01:59 AM	#6
Sean Finnegan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: SF Posts: 54	Now that you mention it, I think the XH-A1 does do that. I remember having that experience a long time ago when I first got my XH-A1 but since I rarely trust the cam's auto settings, I turned it off. And now I don't know how to turn it back on because I would never use it anyway. Just extra stuff on the display that makes the image harder to see. __________________ Sean Finnegan, cinematographer imfinnegan.tumblr.com // ign.com

August 18th, 2009, 06:20 PM	#8
Darin Clifton Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sulligent, Alabama Posts: 132	Nd The camera will flash ND when it needs it - and flash in red when it must be reset or turned off. Be careful of shooting in very bright sunlight without the ND - or ignoring it. See the note on blurred images related to use/non use of the ND. ( Mode was auto, auto gain, auto iris ) I have had this problem show up on a shoot where the producer didn't want any tapes viewed until they were captured .. Problem - shoot was in Wyoming ; producer in Kentucky didn't look at the footage until 6 months later. There were 3 shots out of 6 tapes that were blurry due to this issue - but they could have easily been THE ones I needed.

August 20th, 2009, 06:38 PM	#13
Colin Reid Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London, United Kingdom Posts: 48	Soft and/or Noisy Footage Hi Richard, Taky and Peter, The first paragraph under the heading "Using the ND Filter" in the instruction manual reads: "When recording in bright surroundings, the camcorder will set a small aperture value and the picture may appear blurred. Turn the ND filter on/off according to the screen display." This section then goes on to say in part: "When using a recording program other than M Manual and if the AGC switch is set to ON,....:" So, the softness (looks slightly out of focus) can come from not turning the ND filter on. As to the noise, since the ND filter warning only operates when recording in other than Manual and the AGC switch is set to ON, then the noise may be coming from the AGC setting you have previously input. In any case, in very bright sunlight the maximum inbuilt ND filter may still not be enough to cope with the bright light, so you might consider investing in some external ND filters so that you have more effective control of the camera when using one of the automatic modes. It does go on to say in the instruction manual, ""If you have no external ND filter available, use the Tv mode and set a high shutter speed,...." which might alleviate the problem, but still leaves you in the situation where the settings used automatically by the camera may still not cope effectively with the bright light. Hope this helps. Colin

August 17th, 2009, 10:24 AM	#2
Oren Arieli Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 919	Doubtful, I have yet to see such a warning on the XH-A1, nor is there a menu option for this. My suggestion, shoot in shutter-priority mode and allow the camera to adjust the shutter speed when you've got too much light (and forgot to set your ND filter). Better yet, do as the pros do, set your iris manually and use zebras to let you know when you're overexposing important parts of the image. This gives you the benefit of a f-stop readout on the LCD. If you find yourself closing down to f-9, its time to up the ND.

August 17th, 2009, 10:30 AM	#3
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	The manual says there's warnings, and i've received them myself... Of course, these are extreme situations, in where you're Exposure lock might be set, and have unwittingly opened up the ND to the first setting...But it's definately not a common occurence..Your Zebra stripes would be the first hint of trouble...

August 17th, 2009, 12:10 PM	#4
Colin Reid Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London, United Kingdom Posts: 48	See page 39 of the instruction manual. Also be aware that several other pages have "Precautions related to the camcorder operation." entries which refer to the ND filter. The easiest way to find all these entries (and the entries for any other subjects for that matter), is to download the manual in pdf format and use "Find" (under the Edit menu).

August 18th, 2009, 01:00 AM	#5
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Hi I'm more or less sure that ND warnings never will show up in M (Manual) mode. I use M most of the time but sometime I've used other modes and seen the ND filter warning flash. Side 31 in the manual says: "When using a recording program other than M Manual and if the AGC switch is set to ON, the following displays appears: " followed by a list of different ND warnings, either to activate or deactivate ND filters depending on what the camcorder think is the best. Regards, /Bo

August 18th, 2009, 02:56 PM	#7
Pavel Sedlak Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Prague Czech Republic Posts: 263	Yes, warning is true. But it is warning only if ND filter is not right switched.

August 20th, 2009, 10:35 AM	#9
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	I always follow the ND flashing icon with the XH-A1. I'm not sure if it's my camera, if I have ND filter on, in bright day light, there're more visible noise. What should i do? Should I try resetting the camera?

August 20th, 2009, 12:47 PM	#10
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	Personally, i'll hit the Exposure lock button to tell me my current Fstop under the current lighting conditions. F4.0 or F5.6 is the sweet spot..If it's too low or high, i reset my HD filter and redo the above for good measure...It's just as fast and easy for my EVF+Zebra stripes tell me approximately where i should be... As for noise, i've noticed that the footage looks a bit softer with the ND filter set to max. Regardless of exposure..Perhaps it's just me.

August 20th, 2009, 12:49 PM	#11
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	Oh it's not just you. I have such problem too. Once time I did a wedding in a bright sunny day. The footage got very noisy.

August 20th, 2009, 04:07 PM	#12
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	I see this sometimes as well, but I put it down to the camera getting hot in the Singapore sunshine and degrading the sensor operation. Haven't done any proper tests on this though. Richard

August 20th, 2009, 08:53 PM	#14
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	Colin, Thank you so much for your insight. I'm just glad there're so many knowledagable people here. I will kick away my bad AUTO mode habit start practicing using Tv mode you suggest. Taky