A1 Feature Shoot -- Grainy Footage? at DVinfo.net

Matt Gelfman · July 21st, 2009, 08:56 AM

Hey everyone, I'm beginning a feature-length film that'll be shot entirely on the Canon XH-A1, with the Letus Extreme Adapter. Just shot a scene recently and looking at the footage (after put on computer) I find it to be sort of grainy -- more so than expected, anyway. Could just be me, but I figured I'd get some outside opinions. Shot 24F, 1/120 shutter, w/ Letus adapter, iris was open, etc. Also have the gain down -3. Not sure what other specifics to include... here's a couple of screen caps:

http://www.gelfbury.com/crew/test01.bmp

http://www.gelfbury.com/crew/test02.bmp

What do you think?

Edit: Also, there's no CC yet. My AGC is, of course, off.

Bill Pryor · July 21st, 2009, 12:43 PM

It looks a little muddy on my screen, like maybe it's overall a bit underexposed. You may be seeing the texture of the ground glass. Standard shutter speed for 24 fps is 1/48. I don't think the high shutter speed would cause noise, but you might go back to 1/48.

Jonathan Shaw · July 21st, 2009, 05:17 PM

What lens are you using on the Letus... does look grainy and with -3db shouldn't be from the cam. Are you sure that AGC is set to off?

Agree with Bill also drop your shutter speed to 1/48 and it does look underexposed.

Matt Gelfman · July 21st, 2009, 07:13 PM

After doing some more reading (mostly around these forums) it looks like 1/48 might solve a lot of the issue(s).

However, in bringing up the lens (Jonathan), you've brought up something I've been nervous about since I bought it. I used a "Canon FD Lens 50mm 1:1.8 S.C." This was a used lens I found at a nearby camera store -- I purchased it for $50 or so. That seemed kind of too-cheap-to-be-good, but as I didn't know much about lenses, I shrugged and bought it. Looking at the lens, there doesn't seem to be any imperfections in the glass or anything like that... could the lens cause that grainy look?

Thanks for the help.

Jonathan Shaw · July 21st, 2009, 07:44 PM

Matt,

I haven't used a 35 mm adapter on my A1, but I have used various lenses on RED and I can tell you the glass makes all the difference! The lens you have could be fine and with the correct shutter the image could look good. If it's still grainy what not beg, steal, borrow, rent a decent lens and see if that makes a difference. If you are shooting a whole film then you want to get the look right from the get go.

J

David W. Jones · July 22nd, 2009, 06:03 AM

My thoughts... The first thing I noticed is your focus is soft, like you are incorrectly focused on the Letus GG. How are you monitoring you shoot?

Dennis Murphy · July 23rd, 2009, 02:47 PM

It does have a GG grain look to it - but it's hard to tell.
You have to remember that shutterspeeds above 120 will capture the GG grain on the Letus, plus you have to make sure you don't stop down your FD lens past f5.6 or it will resolve the grain too.

Sean Finnegan · July 24th, 2009, 10:41 AM

As I was reading your post the first thing that struck me was your shutter speed. 1/120 is fast for shooting at 24F especially with a 35mm adapter, since you'll inevitably lose a little light through the mechanism. And while I am not sure whether or not that would cause grain, the lack of light certainly could. Bump down your shutter speed to 1/48 which is standard for 24F and give it another go.

July 21st, 2009, 08:56 AM	#1
Matt Gelfman Tourist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nesconset, New York Posts: 2	A1 Feature Shoot -- Grainy Footage? Hey everyone, I'm beginning a feature-length film that'll be shot entirely on the Canon XH-A1, with the Letus Extreme Adapter. Just shot a scene recently and looking at the footage (after put on computer) I find it to be sort of grainy -- more so than expected, anyway. Could just be me, but I figured I'd get some outside opinions. Shot 24F, 1/120 shutter, w/ Letus adapter, iris was open, etc. Also have the gain down -3. Not sure what other specifics to include... here's a couple of screen caps: http://www.gelfbury.com/crew/test01.bmp http://www.gelfbury.com/crew/test02.bmp What do you think? Edit: Also, there's no CC yet. My AGC is, of course, off.

July 21st, 2009, 05:17 PM	#3
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	What lens are you using on the Letus... does look grainy and with -3db shouldn't be from the cam. Are you sure that AGC is set to off? Agree with Bill also drop your shutter speed to 1/48 and it does look underexposed. __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

July 21st, 2009, 07:44 PM	#5
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	Matt, I haven't used a 35 mm adapter on my A1, but I have used various lenses on RED and I can tell you the glass makes all the difference! The lens you have could be fine and with the correct shutter the image could look good. If it's still grainy what not beg, steal, borrow, rent a decent lens and see if that makes a difference. If you are shooting a whole film then you want to get the look right from the get go. J __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

July 23rd, 2009, 02:47 PM	#7
Dennis Murphy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 396	It does have a GG grain look to it - but it's hard to tell. You have to remember that shutterspeeds above 120 will capture the GG grain on the Letus, plus you have to make sure you don't stop down your FD lens past f5.6 or it will resolve the grain too. __________________ http://www.dmvideostuff.co.nz

July 24th, 2009, 10:41 AM	#8
Sean Finnegan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: SF Posts: 54	As I was reading your post the first thing that struck me was your shutter speed. 1/120 is fast for shooting at 24F especially with a 35mm adapter, since you'll inevitably lose a little light through the mechanism. And while I am not sure whether or not that would cause grain, the lack of light certainly could. Bump down your shutter speed to 1/48 which is standard for 24F and give it another go. __________________ Sean Finnegan, cinematographer imfinnegan.tumblr.com // ign.com

July 21st, 2009, 12:43 PM	#2
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	It looks a little muddy on my screen, like maybe it's overall a bit underexposed. You may be seeing the texture of the ground glass. Standard shutter speed for 24 fps is 1/48. I don't think the high shutter speed would cause noise, but you might go back to 1/48.

July 21st, 2009, 07:13 PM	#4
Matt Gelfman Tourist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nesconset, New York Posts: 2	After doing some more reading (mostly around these forums) it looks like 1/48 might solve a lot of the issue(s). However, in bringing up the lens (Jonathan), you've brought up something I've been nervous about since I bought it. I used a "Canon FD Lens 50mm 1:1.8 S.C." This was a used lens I found at a nearby camera store -- I purchased it for $50 or so. That seemed kind of too-cheap-to-be-good, but as I didn't know much about lenses, I shrugged and bought it. Looking at the lens, there doesn't seem to be any imperfections in the glass or anything like that... could the lens cause that grainy look? Thanks for the help.

July 22nd, 2009, 06:03 AM	#6
David W. Jones Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,383	My thoughts... The first thing I noticed is your focus is soft, like you are incorrectly focused on the Letus GG. How are you monitoring you shoot?