whats wrong with me? at DVinfo.net

Janson Williams · February 5th, 2009, 08:32 AM

whats wrong with me? on Vimeo

question concerning the output of these clips, im using a Canon XH-A1 HDV, no preset. export from FCP with original settings

first clip is 60i - why can you see on the brown drapes a lot of grain

next two clips - 24f when fading in and out to black, there is a ripple effect

why are these two things happening. export to current settings,

Marcel D. Van Someren · February 5th, 2009, 09:11 AM

Were you using auto gain?

If so, that would account for higher than normal grain.

As far as your desolve not being smooth, that is likely an artifact of the flash compression that Vimeo uses.

Janson Williams · February 5th, 2009, 10:36 AM

i never use auto gain, it is almost always set at -3, if not -3 then 0

as for the fade, it looks like that direct from exporting from final cut pro, could it possibly be b/c most of the light is in the center?

Marcel D. Van Someren · February 5th, 2009, 12:21 PM

Well, I've experienced the same thing. I use Newtek SpeedEdit. The original footage (.m2t) looks great. And when I render it to Blu-Ray quality .wmv it looks great. However, when I upload it to Vimeo or ExposureRoom, I get that banding effect - especially noticible when you go from black to a bright picture. It's just what compression does to the video.

As far as the grain goes, you might want to start experimenting with presets...adjusting the coring or NR2 settings. Each softens the picture slightly, but does reduce noise.

I have a personal theory that is totally unsubstanciated but I think certain production runs of the A1 are more sensitive than others.

By the way, you can get plug-ins that remove noise from your video as well.

Janson Williams · February 5th, 2009, 12:25 PM

i do not see the grain in the viewfinder, or even when im editing in FCP, just when it exports, ill either mess with those settings or go about with what you had said

Howard Churgin · February 5th, 2009, 05:55 PM

If your not happy with your dissolves and fades etc. then try TMPEG Xpress 4.0. (Free trial) for your encoding. I was not happy with my Adobe media encoder for encoding to mpeg for dvd, but TMPEG does a better smoother job on fades and motion. I bought it and use now for my dvd encoding.

Tripp Woelfel · February 5th, 2009, 07:48 PM

Aside from the XH A1, I don't use any of the kit you do. But I have uploaded a bunch to Vimeo.

It's probably an artifact of the re-compression to Flash on Vimeo. Lower data rates used by Vimeo will produce artifacts like this in nearly every fade. If you output from your NLE using Vimeo's recommended settings for h.264, you'll get them there too. It's gonna happen with a highly compressed video and a lossy codec.

Janson Williams · February 9th, 2009, 05:17 PM

Tripp~
its not when i send it on over to vimeo, its when i export from FCP at full res, it has that halo effect

??

Tripp Woelfel · February 9th, 2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janson Williams

its not when i send it on over to vimeo, its when i export from FCP at full res, it has that halo effect

Aha! What are your output settings? I don't know what "original" is in FCP since I'm a PC slave. You might try outputting one of the dissolves to QuickTime using the lossless Animation codec and see what it looks like.

Also, are you pushing the color around? If you raise the black input and lower the white, you'll leave your NLE without enough information for a smooth gradient using HDV and an 8 bit color space. This is one of the reasons Cineform promotes their 10 bit products.

It sounds like you're stumbling over the limitations of the HDV format.

February 5th, 2009, 08:32 AM	#1
Janson Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 101	whats wrong with me? whats wrong with me? on Vimeo question concerning the output of these clips, im using a Canon XH-A1 HDV, no preset. export from FCP with original settings first clip is 60i - why can you see on the brown drapes a lot of grain next two clips - 24f when fading in and out to black, there is a ripple effect why are these two things happening. export to current settings,

February 5th, 2009, 09:11 AM	#2
Marcel D. Van Someren Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 325	Were you using auto gain? If so, that would account for higher than normal grain. As far as your desolve not being smooth, that is likely an artifact of the flash compression that Vimeo uses.

February 5th, 2009, 10:36 AM	#3
Janson Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 101	i never use auto gain, it is almost always set at -3, if not -3 then 0 as for the fade, it looks like that direct from exporting from final cut pro, could it possibly be b/c most of the light is in the center?

February 5th, 2009, 12:21 PM	#4
Marcel D. Van Someren Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 325	Well, I've experienced the same thing. I use Newtek SpeedEdit. The original footage (.m2t) looks great. And when I render it to Blu-Ray quality .wmv it looks great. However, when I upload it to Vimeo or ExposureRoom, I get that banding effect - especially noticible when you go from black to a bright picture. It's just what compression does to the video. As far as the grain goes, you might want to start experimenting with presets...adjusting the coring or NR2 settings. Each softens the picture slightly, but does reduce noise. I have a personal theory that is totally unsubstanciated but I think certain production runs of the A1 are more sensitive than others. By the way, you can get plug-ins that remove noise from your video as well.

February 5th, 2009, 12:25 PM	#5
Janson Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 101	i do not see the grain in the viewfinder, or even when im editing in FCP, just when it exports, ill either mess with those settings or go about with what you had said

February 5th, 2009, 05:55 PM	#6
Howard Churgin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Marlboro, NJ Posts: 85	If your not happy with your dissolves and fades etc. then try TMPEG Xpress 4.0. (Free trial) for your encoding. I was not happy with my Adobe media encoder for encoding to mpeg for dvd, but TMPEG does a better smoother job on fades and motion. I bought it and use now for my dvd encoding.

February 5th, 2009, 07:48 PM	#7
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Aside from the XH A1, I don't use any of the kit you do. But I have uploaded a bunch to Vimeo. It's probably an artifact of the re-compression to Flash on Vimeo. Lower data rates used by Vimeo will produce artifacts like this in nearly every fade. If you output from your NLE using Vimeo's recommended settings for h.264, you'll get them there too. It's gonna happen with a highly compressed video and a lossy codec.

February 9th, 2009, 05:17 PM	#8
Janson Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 101	Tripp~ its not when i send it on over to vimeo, its when i export from FCP at full res, it has that halo effect ??