Wobble at DVinfo.net

Ann Bens · January 10th, 2009, 09:42 AM

Does anyone recognize this behaviour, especially the last shot with max zoomed in.
Its wobbly, looks like we were in the Sahara with those heat waves.
Shots were taken with the A1 from a travel tripod with the stabilization off. No special settings, the focus was on manual. Max zoomed in.

Wobble on Vimeo

Doug Bennett · January 10th, 2009, 11:55 AM

leave OIS on unless you are panning on a very stable (heavy,expensive) tripod

a major limitation of the XH series for nature/lanscape photography is that you cannot easily disable OIS on the fly.

Bill Pryor · January 10th, 2009, 12:52 PM

I see trees blowing in the breeze, but the mountains are solid...except when the tripod's bouncing a little, probably when you touch the camera. Zoomed in all the way, you need a solid tripod that locks down good.

Colin McDonald · January 10th, 2009, 01:32 PM

To me, it looks like a combination of two things - a tripod that isn't top notch (I've got one too) and some atmospheric distortion - like a heat haze, except it probably wasn't very hot at the time. It just needs some movement of different densities of air to cause this and different temperatures (like cold and bl***y cold for example) will create pockets of air with differing refractive indices which can cause a similar shimmering effect.

I think the advice of leaving the OIS on unless you have a really solid tripod (and and equally solid mount on the camera) is certainly worth a try.

Bill Fredette · January 10th, 2009, 01:38 PM

I agree. It looks like an atmospheric effect - especially in that last shot. Nice place to shoot, by the way. Where is it?

Chris Soucy · January 10th, 2009, 02:10 PM

Hmm, wondering where you found those peaks in the Netherlands?

Hidden assets, obviously.

Maybe it's just me, but the only things I can see are a load of thermals (cold is relative) and a bit of camera wobble right at the end - searching for the stop button, perhaps?

As far as I can tell, with the exception of that last moment wobble, the camera is rock solid, tho' what that clip looks like on a 46" screen could be entirely different to the Vimeo box on my 24".

CS

Nick Gordon · January 11th, 2009, 04:32 AM

+ 1 for atmospheric effects/thermals. There's a touch of wobble just before each cut, which looks like it might be the 'finger on the stop button' effect

Lou Bruno · January 11th, 2009, 08:09 AM

Leave OIS OFF when on a tripod as per the manual. The SLIGHT movement of either the wind or utilizing the ON/OFF button is causing the OIS to compensate for the movement especially at that focal length. This is common also to the XL-2.

There is also a thermal abberation which is not the same issue as it is atmospheric in nature.

I woul recommend a LANC controller to engage the ON/OFF button or at least the REMOTE control which comes with the camera as a means of operating this function rather than manually.

Colin McDonald · January 11th, 2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou Bruno

Leave OIS OFF when on a tripod as per the manual. The SLIGHT movement of either the wind or utilizing the ON/OFF button is causing the OIS to compensate for the movement especially at that focal length. This is common also to the XL-2.

Lou, Ann said that the OIS WAS off which is why a couple of people have suggested seeing what happens with it on when the tripod is not all that steady.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou Bruno

I woul recommend a LANC controller to engage the ON/OFF button or at least the REMOTE control which comes with the camera as a means of operating this function rather than manually.

Roger that, or even use the remote control.

Ann Bens · January 11th, 2009, 10:35 AM

I do not mean the wobble at the beginning or end of the shot, this is caused by hitting the on and off button. That can be fixed in post. No option taking a lanc controller on a hike.
I mean the 'heat' haze, very visible especially on the last shot. You must go to full screen in vimeo in order to see. The whole picture is moving about very subtle, the snow and the rocks should be rock solid. Maybe it is is atmospheric.
The shots were taken in Torres del Paine Chili last November down in a valley. I have other shots taken in the valley and they are cristal clear.
BTW Can't find any info on Thermal abberration.

Bo Sundvall · January 12th, 2009, 07:46 AM

Hi

What you see is most likely caused by moving air. I have seen it myself on some clips during a sunny day last summer and also this fall. It looks weird but as it only shows up on tele shots and not in wide I made the conclusion that it is moving air causing this and not the camera or the CCD.

Regards,

/Bo

Robert Wide · January 12th, 2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Bens

I do not mean the wobble at the beginning or end of the shot, this is caused by hitting the on and off button. That can be fixed in post. No option taking a lanc controller on a hike.
I mean the 'heat' haze, very visible especially on the last shot. You must go to full screen in vimeo in order to see. The whole picture is moving about very subtle, the snow and the rocks should be rock solid. Maybe it is is atmospheric.
The shots were taken in Torres del Paine Chili last November down in a valley. I have other shots taken in the valley and they are cristal clear.
BTW Can't find any info on Thermal abberration.

Hi Ann,

Do you experience the same wobble effect when filming in thermally more stable situations?

Robert

Per Johan Naesje · January 12th, 2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Bens

I mean the 'heat' haze, very visible especially on the last shot. You must go to full screen in vimeo in order to see. The whole picture is moving about very subtle, the snow and the rocks should be rock solid. Maybe it is is atmospheric.

Ann, it is atmospheric and nothing you can do with it, other than use a more wide focal lenght!
Those situations are quite common when you do wildlife/nature filming. Even in cold weather and snow you will experience this when you are in the telephoto-end of your A1, which has 20x zoom. Your are nearly at 850mm (equiv. 35mm focal length).

Tim Cee · January 12th, 2009, 12:32 PM

In Still Photgraphy we call that " wobbling " Atmospheric Aberration. I agree that a wider angle would minimize this effect but perhaps also minimize what you were trying to capture. Nice footage by the way!

Ann Bens · January 12th, 2009, 03:01 PM

Hi guys,
i am pretty much convinced now it is atmospheric.
Thanks for all the replies.
BTW If you every want to go to a beautiful place to film nature go to Patagonia.

January 10th, 2009, 09:42 AM	#1
Ann Bens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 710	Wobble Does anyone recognize this behaviour, especially the last shot with max zoomed in. Its wobbly, looks like we were in the Sahara with those heat waves. Shots were taken with the A1 from a travel tripod with the stabilization off. No special settings, the focus was on manual. Max zoomed in. Wobble on Vimeo

January 10th, 2009, 01:32 PM	#4
Colin McDonald Trustee Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 1,546	To me, it looks like a combination of two things - a tripod that isn't top notch (I've got one too) and some atmospheric distortion - like a heat haze, except it probably wasn't very hot at the time. It just needs some movement of different densities of air to cause this and different temperatures (like cold and bl**y cold for example) will create pockets of air with differing refractive indices which can cause a similar shimmering effect. I think the advice of leaving the OIS on unless you have a really solid tripod (and and equally solid mount on the camera) is certainly worth a try. Last edited by Colin McDonald; January 10th, 2009 at 02:26 PM.*

January 10th, 2009, 02:10 PM	#6
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hi Ann.................. Hmm, wondering where you found those peaks in the Netherlands? Hidden assets, obviously. Maybe it's just me, but the only things I can see are a load of thermals (cold is relative) and a bit of camera wobble right at the end - searching for the stop button, perhaps? As far as I can tell, with the exception of that last moment wobble, the camera is rock solid, tho' what that clip looks like on a 46" screen could be entirely different to the Vimeo box on my 24". CS

January 11th, 2009, 08:09 AM	#8
Lou Bruno Go Cycle Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntington, NY Posts: 815	Leave OIS OFF when on a tripod as per the manual. The SLIGHT movement of either the wind or utilizing the ON/OFF button is causing the OIS to compensate for the movement especially at that focal length. This is common also to the XL-2. There is also a thermal abberation which is not the same issue as it is atmospheric in nature. I woul recommend a LANC controller to engage the ON/OFF button or at least the REMOTE control which comes with the camera as a means of operating this function rather than manually. __________________ Lou Bruno

January 12th, 2009, 12:32 PM	#14
Tim Cee Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 179	In Still Photgraphy we call that " wobbling " Atmospheric Aberration. I agree that a wider angle would minimize this effect but perhaps also minimize what you were trying to capture. Nice footage by the way! __________________ www.socalt.com

January 10th, 2009, 11:55 AM	#2
Doug Bennett Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 260	leave OIS on unless you are panning on a very stable (heavy,expensive) tripod a major limitation of the XH series for nature/lanscape photography is that you cannot easily disable OIS on the fly.

January 10th, 2009, 12:52 PM	#3
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I see trees blowing in the breeze, but the mountains are solid...except when the tripod's bouncing a little, probably when you touch the camera. Zoomed in all the way, you need a solid tripod that locks down good.

January 10th, 2009, 01:38 PM	#5
Bill Fredette New Boot Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Worcester, NY Posts: 19	I agree. It looks like an atmospheric effect - especially in that last shot. Nice place to shoot, by the way. Where is it?

January 11th, 2009, 04:32 AM	#7
Nick Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 166	+ 1 for atmospheric effects/thermals. There's a touch of wobble just before each cut, which looks like it might be the 'finger on the stop button' effect

January 11th, 2009, 10:35 AM	#10
Ann Bens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 710	I do not mean the wobble at the beginning or end of the shot, this is caused by hitting the on and off button. That can be fixed in post. No option taking a lanc controller on a hike. I mean the 'heat' haze, very visible especially on the last shot. You must go to full screen in vimeo in order to see. The whole picture is moving about very subtle, the snow and the rocks should be rock solid. Maybe it is is atmospheric. The shots were taken in Torres del Paine Chili last November down in a valley. I have other shots taken in the valley and they are cristal clear. BTW Can't find any info on Thermal abberration.

January 12th, 2009, 07:46 AM	#11
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Hi What you see is most likely caused by moving air. I have seen it myself on some clips during a sunny day last summer and also this fall. It looks weird but as it only shows up on tele shots and not in wide I made the conclusion that it is moving air causing this and not the camera or the CCD. Regards, /Bo

January 12th, 2009, 03:01 PM	#15
Ann Bens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 710	Hi guys, i am pretty much convinced now it is atmospheric. Thanks for all the replies. BTW If you every want to go to a beautiful place to film nature go to Patagonia.