New preset : PFVISION (sample included) at DVinfo.net

Randy Panado · January 6th, 2009, 03:42 AM

Hi all,

In my struggle to find a perfect preset that fits all situations in shooting weddings, I've been trying some great presets from Giovanni Speranza. Vision01 was my favorite of all of the revisions he's made due to it's great skin tones yet it was just too dark during the reception. I've struggled with the low light situation compared to my partners' FX1s. The stock preset looks to be a stop to a stop and a half brighter so I KNEW there had to be a way to tweak the image to still have the great look but not be so dark.

PaPa from another forum mixed Steven Dempsey's Panalook with Gio's Vision04 and came up with Panavision. A few days later Gio, in his never ending quest for improving presets, came up with 35MMFILM preset. 35MMFILM had lighter gamma which was something I needed for those dark reception halls. Although great, I felt it's color was a bit green. He revised it and mixed it with Panavision and came up with PanaFilm.

Now PanaFilm was a GREAT preset yet it was still too dark in terms of shadows (which is more of a personal preference). I then went back to my favorite of Vision01 and "mixed" the two together. Here is my settings :

GAM CINE1
CMX N
HDF L
Black S
Knee L
NR1 off
NR2 off
CGN 25
RGN 48
GGN 49
BGN 50
SHP 9
SET -9
COR 9

Everything else zero.

I call it PFVISION (PanaFilm Vision).

Chris Light was kind enough to give my preset a try and this is what he came up with :

Another serendipity of this testing and tweaking was that it matches my partner's FX1s almost perfectly on the daylight WB! Usually, during same day edits, it was easy to pick out the different cameras based on the colors. Now they are pretty much close :).

I'm VERY VERY VERY happy with the way this preset turned out and it ROCKS in terms of low light compared to Vision01 but still keeping all the good things about that preset. I used this preset during a wedding this past weekend and it did great.

I get so much great information from this site so hopefully this preset will be beneficial to others.

Many thanks again to Giovanni Speranza, PaPa, and Steven Dempsey for the awesome building blocks of this preset.

-Randy

Michael Hutson · January 6th, 2009, 05:19 PM

Randy,
Very Nice! I will copy the settings as soon as I finish posting.

I am interested how the camera was set up(gain, shutter speed, etc).

You mentioned that you made the preset for low light conditions but I didn't see a whole lot of low light footage.

What are your normal camera settings when you are shooting in low light? My xha1 and I only have a 2 week relationship and still learning. :)

Thank you for sharing your preset!
Michael

Randy Panado · January 6th, 2009, 06:16 PM

In the reception, I used +6 DB and it looked great (not a whole lot of grain and still had good colors and brightness). I usually shoot 60i and keep my shutter speed at 1/60. I'll sometimes use 1/30 during dances when they turn the lights down.

I try to shoot at -3DB if possible but couldn't get away with anything less than +6db in the reception hall.

My gain settings are -3 Low, +3 Med, +6 High.

Chris (the guy who made the video) just shot whatever he could around the house. Try it out in lowlight to see how it turns out. It won't make the camera image better than what the camera can produce though ;). I'm not sure which settings he used in his video.

If you shoot with 24F @ 1/24 or 1/48 shutter speed or even 60i/30F @ 1/30 shutter speed, it will give you even more light.

I tweaked this setting with low lit reception halls in mind. Try it out and let me know what you think. It's not for everybody but with the needs I had, it suits them perfectly :).

-Randy

Travis Cossel · January 6th, 2009, 06:29 PM

Randy, I've noticed a number of people using "-3" for their primary gain setting. Why? Does it give you a clearer image when you're shooting with plenty of light?

Randy Panado · January 6th, 2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

Randy, I've noticed a number of people using "-3" for their primary gain setting. Why? Does it give you a clearer image when you're shooting with plenty of light?

I don't know the technical reason, but yes. Image should be producing less grain at the lower gain setting (just please don't ask me to explain it, heh). I can only relate it to ISO settings in the lower the setting, the less the grain. Although the older DSLR cameras have the "fake" 50 ISO setting that really didn't help too much. I'm sure one of the more technical guys on here can explain the science behind it.

One of the main reasons I do it is that it also gives me more play room when riding the aperture.

Mikey Williams · January 6th, 2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

Randy, I've noticed a number of people using "-3" for their primary gain setting. Why? Does it give you a clearer image when you're shooting with plenty of light?

I don't believe it gives you a clearer image, but it does allow you to open up your aperture more, giving you a smaller depth of field, which I personally think creates a more pleasing image.

Randy Panado · January 6th, 2009, 07:57 PM

I think a "cleaner" image is a better term to describe the reason to use -3, not so much a "clearer" image. I'm jumping the gun a bit here, but the lower the gain setting = cleaner the image and less noise.

So in the case of having less noise, yes it does give you a clearer/cleaner image.

Travis Cossel · January 6th, 2009, 09:07 PM

I suspected people were going with "-3" gain to reduce the grain in the image. However, I set up both of my A1's a while back and set one to "0" and the other to "-3" and I couldn't see a difference in the LCD. Are you guys actually seeing less grain in your images or is a case of "if you enlarge the image 300% you can see the difference"?

Regarding the wider aperture and lower depth of field, that is interesting .. and I don't understand how adjusting the gain would affect your aperture setting. I thought aperture was strictly a function of the lens, and not related to internal software in the camera.

Randy Panado · January 6th, 2009, 09:17 PM

I can only assume it's less gain. I have never actually put it to a test.

As for the aperture method Mikey talked about, I can see how it would work if you were trying to keep things from blowing out wide open but don't really see how often that would come up considering you could use shutter speed + NDs to get you to stop down as well. It'd have to be a very bright scene to still blow out after maxing out both ND and shutter speed options.

Travis Cossel · January 6th, 2009, 10:32 PM

Okay, well, in my unscientific test I couldn't see a difference in grain between the two, although I could tell that one was slightly darker. Because of that, I decided to just stay at "0" since I shoot mostly weddings and I usually need all the help I can get at a dark reception.

Randy Panado · January 6th, 2009, 11:09 PM

I only use -3 db outside, and always start at +3db inside since that little bump helps. One can assume that with it being darker, then hopefully that comes with less grain and a clearer picture.

This preset at +6 DB looks very clean on the LCD. I was using a preset before that was an estimated stop to stop and a half darker at +6db. With a change of just this preset, +6db looks fine to me AND it made all my footage usable without having to do any CC.

I should have taken some quick test footage at the reception hall I shot at this past saturday, but needless to say this is my end all be all preset :).

If you do try it out at a reception, please let me know how it holds up! I know exactly how you feel about trying to get all the light possible. I was ready to put the A1 up for sale and get an HMC-150 till this preset came along. That's the reason why I'm so happy with it, it was the deal breaker on whether or not I was going to keep the camera (was getting tired of my friend with an FX1 constant ribbing about the low light capability of this cam..haha).

BTW, what preset are you using now to shoot? Do you shoot in 24F?

-Randy

Travis Cossel · January 7th, 2009, 12:05 AM

I actually don't use a preset when I film because I'd rather have a flat image to work with in post as it's generally a safer route in my humble opinion. I have several on the cameras, but just haven't used them. I might put this one on and try it out at the end of a reception .. you know, run a test and see how it does with and without the preset. Who knows, it might change my opinion of presets, lol.

Also, I do film in 24f.

Michael Hutson · January 7th, 2009, 05:26 PM

Thanks Randy. Being new and playing with the camera, your statements confirm what I am finding my self. I will certainly give your preset a try. Thanks again for sharing your time and preset.

Best regards,
Michael

Randy Panado · January 7th, 2009, 06:28 PM

Hey Michael!

No problem. This forum has helped me out quite a bit so I'm glad to give back. Please try it out and let me know what you think :).

-Randy

Kees van Duijvenbode · January 8th, 2009, 05:50 AM

How can this Preset help in low-light with the Setup level at-9?
And doesn't pumping up the colors almost with the same amount give a reddish result.

January 6th, 2009, 03:42 AM	#1
Randy Panado Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 643	New preset : PFVISION (sample included) Hi all, In my struggle to find a perfect preset that fits all situations in shooting weddings, I've been trying some great presets from Giovanni Speranza. Vision01 was my favorite of all of the revisions he's made due to it's great skin tones yet it was just too dark during the reception. I've struggled with the low light situation compared to my partners' FX1s. The stock preset looks to be a stop to a stop and a half brighter so I KNEW there had to be a way to tweak the image to still have the great look but not be so dark. PaPa from another forum mixed Steven Dempsey's Panalook with Gio's Vision04 and came up with Panavision. A few days later Gio, in his never ending quest for improving presets, came up with 35MMFILM preset. 35MMFILM had lighter gamma which was something I needed for those dark reception halls. Although great, I felt it's color was a bit green. He revised it and mixed it with Panavision and came up with PanaFilm. Now PanaFilm was a GREAT preset yet it was still too dark in terms of shadows (which is more of a personal preference). I then went back to my favorite of Vision01 and "mixed" the two together. Here is my settings : GAM CINE1 CMX N HDF L Black S Knee L NR1 off NR2 off CGN 25 RGN 48 GGN 49 BGN 50 SHP 9 SET -9 COR 9 Everything else zero. I call it PFVISION (PanaFilm Vision). Chris Light was kind enough to give my preset a try and this is what he came up with : Monday Music HD on Vimeo Another serendipity of this testing and tweaking was that it matches my partner's FX1s almost perfectly on the daylight WB! Usually, during same day edits, it was easy to pick out the different cameras based on the colors. Now they are pretty much close :). I'm VERY VERY VERY happy with the way this preset turned out and it ROCKS in terms of low light compared to Vision01 but still keeping all the good things about that preset. I used this preset during a wedding this past weekend and it did great. I get so much great information from this site so hopefully this preset will be beneficial to others. Many thanks again to Giovanni Speranza, PaPa, and Steven Dempsey for the awesome building blocks of this preset. -Randy

January 6th, 2009, 05:19 PM	#2
Michael Hutson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 249	Very Nice, Randy Randy, Very Nice! I will copy the settings as soon as I finish posting. I am interested how the camera was set up(gain, shutter speed, etc). You mentioned that you made the preset for low light conditions but I didn't see a whole lot of low light footage. What are your normal camera settings when you are shooting in low light? My xha1 and I only have a 2 week relationship and still learning. :) Thank you for sharing your preset! Michael

January 6th, 2009, 06:16 PM	#3
Randy Panado Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 643	In the reception, I used +6 DB and it looked great (not a whole lot of grain and still had good colors and brightness). I usually shoot 60i and keep my shutter speed at 1/60. I'll sometimes use 1/30 during dances when they turn the lights down. I try to shoot at -3DB if possible but couldn't get away with anything less than +6db in the reception hall. My gain settings are -3 Low, +3 Med, +6 High. Chris (the guy who made the video) just shot whatever he could around the house. Try it out in lowlight to see how it turns out. It won't make the camera image better than what the camera can produce though ;). I'm not sure which settings he used in his video. If you shoot with 24F @ 1/24 or 1/48 shutter speed or even 60i/30F @ 1/30 shutter speed, it will give you even more light. I tweaked this setting with low lit reception halls in mind. Try it out and let me know what you think. It's not for everybody but with the needs I had, it suits them perfectly :). -Randy Last edited by Randy Panado; January 6th, 2009 at 06:51 PM.

January 6th, 2009, 06:29 PM	#4
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Randy, I've noticed a number of people using "-3" for their primary gain setting. Why? Does it give you a clearer image when you're shooting with plenty of light? __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

January 6th, 2009, 09:07 PM	#8
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	I suspected people were going with "-3" gain to reduce the grain in the image. However, I set up both of my A1's a while back and set one to "0" and the other to "-3" and I couldn't see a difference in the LCD. Are you guys actually seeing less grain in your images or is a case of "if you enlarge the image 300% you can see the difference"? Regarding the wider aperture and lower depth of field, that is interesting .. and I don't understand how adjusting the gain would affect your aperture setting. I thought aperture was strictly a function of the lens, and not related to internal software in the camera. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

January 6th, 2009, 07:57 PM	#7
Randy Panado Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 643	I think a "cleaner" image is a better term to describe the reason to use -3, not so much a "clearer" image. I'm jumping the gun a bit here, but the lower the gain setting = cleaner the image and less noise. So in the case of having less noise, yes it does give you a clearer/cleaner image.

January 6th, 2009, 09:17 PM	#9
Randy Panado Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 643	I can only assume it's less gain. I have never actually put it to a test. As for the aperture method Mikey talked about, I can see how it would work if you were trying to keep things from blowing out wide open but don't really see how often that would come up considering you could use shutter speed + NDs to get you to stop down as well. It'd have to be a very bright scene to still blow out after maxing out both ND and shutter speed options.

January 6th, 2009, 10:32 PM	#10
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Okay, well, in my unscientific test I couldn't see a difference in grain between the two, although I could tell that one was slightly darker. Because of that, I decided to just stay at "0" since I shoot mostly weddings and I usually need all the help I can get at a dark reception. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

January 6th, 2009, 11:09 PM	#11
Randy Panado Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 643	I only use -3 db outside, and always start at +3db inside since that little bump helps. One can assume that with it being darker, then hopefully that comes with less grain and a clearer picture. This preset at +6 DB looks very clean on the LCD. I was using a preset before that was an estimated stop to stop and a half darker at +6db. With a change of just this preset, +6db looks fine to me AND it made all my footage usable without having to do any CC. I should have taken some quick test footage at the reception hall I shot at this past saturday, but needless to say this is my end all be all preset :). If you do try it out at a reception, please let me know how it holds up! I know exactly how you feel about trying to get all the light possible. I was ready to put the A1 up for sale and get an HMC-150 till this preset came along. That's the reason why I'm so happy with it, it was the deal breaker on whether or not I was going to keep the camera (was getting tired of my friend with an FX1 constant ribbing about the low light capability of this cam..haha). BTW, what preset are you using now to shoot? Do you shoot in 24F? -Randy

January 7th, 2009, 12:05 AM	#12
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	I actually don't use a preset when I film because I'd rather have a flat image to work with in post as it's generally a safer route in my humble opinion. I have several on the cameras, but just haven't used them. I might put this one on and try it out at the end of a reception .. you know, run a test and see how it does with and without the preset. Who knows, it might change my opinion of presets, lol. Also, I do film in 24f. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

January 7th, 2009, 05:26 PM	#13
Michael Hutson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 249	Thanks for your reply, Randy Thanks Randy. Being new and playing with the camera, your statements confirm what I am finding my self. I will certainly give your preset a try. Thanks again for sharing your time and preset. Best regards, Michael

January 7th, 2009, 06:28 PM	#14
Randy Panado Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 643	Hey Michael! No problem. This forum has helped me out quite a bit so I'm glad to give back. Please try it out and let me know what you think :). -Randy

January 8th, 2009, 05:50 AM	#15
Kees van Duijvenbode Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 246	How can this Preset help in low-light with the Setup level at-9? And doesn't pumping up the colors almost with the same amount give a reddish result. __________________ www.cvd-video.nl