Weddings in 24f w/ A1 at DVinfo.net

Daniel Fessak · December 30th, 2008, 09:49 AM

Has anyone here ever shot a wedding in 24f? What were the results? Happy? Wished they never did it? Have a clip they can share online?

Asking because someone is interested in a film look for their wedding. I did one with a Panasonic shooting in 24p 3 years ago, but was not happy with it because of the normal issues involving shooting in 24 frames. Said I would never do it again, but thinking maybe I can get better results with the A1.

Any suggestions?

Bill Pryor · December 30th, 2008, 11:49 AM

If you didn't like 24 fps with the other camera, you're not going to like it with the XH A1. Same thing.

Josh Laronge · December 30th, 2008, 12:23 PM

All the weddings we do are shot in 24f. I like it, my clients like it. It's a personal choice. I realize it sometimes stutters and some video pros will not like it but I think it adds to a nice soft organic feel.

--JL

Joel Peregrine · December 30th, 2008, 02:10 PM

Hi Daniel,

There is a lot to consider that goes beyond the 'look', especially if you have to keep in mind editing efficiency. One of Steve Jobs' quotes he told his employees was 'Artists Ship."

I shot my first 3 with the A1's at 24f, then changed to 30f for the next 3 because I felt the slow motion had too much stutter. Now I am doing a hybrid of 60i with a 1/30 shutter for the prep and ceremony and post and 24f for the reception for the low-light sensitivity. The reason for the 60i at the ceremony is because Final Cut Pro can only use the multicam feature with captures that are of the same frame rate and codec. The HV30 captures as 60i regardless of the frame rate so in order not to have to go through a lengthy transcoding process for each event to change the A1's frame rate I shoot the A1 at 60i and get the same sensitivity and look of 30F by lowering the shutter to 1/30.

That being said the following is a highlights done completely @ 24F. Its on the longer side - nearly 9 minutes:

~ megan and brent | 8.23.08 ~

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Fessak

Has anyone here ever shot a wedding in 24f? What were the results? Happy? Wished they never did it? Have a clip they can share online?

Asking because someone is interested in a film look for their wedding. I did one with a Panasonic shooting in 24p 3 years ago, but was not happy with it because of the normal issues involving shooting in 24 frames. Said I would never do it again, but thinking maybe I can get better results with the A1.

Any suggestions?

Daniel Fessak · December 30th, 2008, 06:12 PM

You know what, I have always really liked the 24p look because video just... well, looks like video, there is nothing pretty about how video looks, at least to me. But I'm not crazy about the stutter when doing 24p, which is why I avoided it. I just got the camera the other day and am going to do some tests with it in the next day or two, so we'll see how the slow-mo and pans look. Plus I don't think that a lot of effects look good when editing something in 24p. I don't use a lot of effects, but the few times I do they don't look right with 24p.

I don't use Final Cut, I'm an Avid guy, keyframes in Final Cut drive me crazy, so how it works with Final Cut is not as issue for me.

Tripp Woelfel · December 30th, 2008, 09:19 PM

I shot a wedding as a favor to a friend and used 24f. They liked the way it work and this guy was an indie filmmaker in LA years ago, and I mean with real film. As you stated, practice with that frame rate will be important. Slomo will be notchy unless you have something like After Effects that can tween frames intelligently, but even AE can munch a few frames in certain circumstances.

It's just my uninformed opinion, but I think one can give video the richer look people often attribute to the look of film with intelligent color grading.

Jason Weisner · December 31st, 2008, 09:43 AM

Joel,
Wow-Wedding videos have come along way. Great job! Could you go more into detail on the pluses and minues of using 24p with the A1. Is it the slow motion that you don't like (stutter effect) or are there other issues. What about slow pans? I know there are probably 200 other threads addressing the 24p issue. However I was able to view your footage and have a better idea of what you're referring to. I have shot 60i forever and just did alot of color correction to saturate the images. Just looking for a little insight on the switch to 24p. Thanks.
Jason

Canon XHA1 | Cineform Aspect HD

Daniel Fessak · December 31st, 2008, 11:24 AM

Joel, I was looking at the clip you posted again. Looks great. Did you use any special filters or lens for it? Or use any effect when editing it?

Joel Peregrine · December 31st, 2008, 05:01 PM

Hi Jason.

I think a lot of people would be impressed by what some videographers are doing with weddings. The problem is that we're all fighting 25 years of mediocrity.

I haven't noticed any of the judder problems with pans and fast camera moves, only when I slow it down below 66%. I'm still struggling with getting the right 'look' for contrast, gamma and saturation. My ultimate goal is to not have to do any CC work. With this one, which was literally the first shoot I did with the camera, I totally missed. The blacks were too crushed and I white balanced way too warm for the entire day. The latest ones I've shot should require much less work in post to make them look 'normal'. I'm not big on "looks" that create false coloration. I'm going for a realistic look that lets the content come through.

Based on what I've seen here if I didn't ever use slow motion and didn't have to mix the footage in FCP in a way that required a different frame rate to match the HV30 I'd always shoot 24F with the A1.

Joel Peregrine · December 31st, 2008, 05:04 PM

Hi Daniel,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Fessak

Joel, I was looking at the clip you posted again. Looks great. Did you use any special filters or lens for it? Or use any effect when editing it?

Nothing was used except the stock lens. No wide angle adapters or 35mm adapters. For weddings my motto is K.I.S.S. The more simple your set up the less chance you have of missing a money-moment. In post I only used a color correction filter and an occasional 'old movie' effect.

Daniel Fessak · December 31st, 2008, 06:14 PM

That looks really great for just regular 24f shooting. It has now gotten me thinking about shooting in it. I have a wedding in exactly one month and now seriously considering doing it in 24f. I will try to sneak into church on Saturday when it's empty to shoot some stuff and see how it would look for test footage. If only I had more camera setups to work with...

December 30th, 2008, 09:49 AM	#1
Daniel Fessak Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 123	Weddings in 24f w/ A1 Has anyone here ever shot a wedding in 24f? What were the results? Happy? Wished they never did it? Have a clip they can share online? Asking because someone is interested in a film look for their wedding. I did one with a Panasonic shooting in 24p 3 years ago, but was not happy with it because of the normal issues involving shooting in 24 frames. Said I would never do it again, but thinking maybe I can get better results with the A1. Any suggestions?

December 30th, 2008, 11:49 AM	#2
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	If you didn't like 24 fps with the other camera, you're not going to like it with the XH A1. Same thing.

December 30th, 2008, 12:23 PM	#3
Josh Laronge Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 241	All the weddings we do are shot in 24f. I like it, my clients like it. It's a personal choice. I realize it sometimes stutters and some video pros will not like it but I think it adds to a nice soft organic feel. --JL

December 30th, 2008, 06:12 PM	#5
Daniel Fessak Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 123	You know what, I have always really liked the 24p look because video just... well, looks like video, there is nothing pretty about how video looks, at least to me. But I'm not crazy about the stutter when doing 24p, which is why I avoided it. I just got the camera the other day and am going to do some tests with it in the next day or two, so we'll see how the slow-mo and pans look. Plus I don't think that a lot of effects look good when editing something in 24p. I don't use a lot of effects, but the few times I do they don't look right with 24p. I don't use Final Cut, I'm an Avid guy, keyframes in Final Cut drive me crazy, so how it works with Final Cut is not as issue for me.

December 30th, 2008, 09:19 PM	#6
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	I shot a wedding as a favor to a friend and used 24f. They liked the way it work and this guy was an indie filmmaker in LA years ago, and I mean with real film. As you stated, practice with that frame rate will be important. Slomo will be notchy unless you have something like After Effects that can tween frames intelligently, but even AE can munch a few frames in certain circumstances. It's just my uninformed opinion, but I think one can give video the richer look people often attribute to the look of film with intelligent color grading.

December 31st, 2008, 09:43 AM	#7
Jason Weisner New Boot Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 9	Joel, Wow-Wedding videos have come along way. Great job! Could you go more into detail on the pluses and minues of using 24p with the A1. Is it the slow motion that you don't like (stutter effect) or are there other issues. What about slow pans? I know there are probably 200 other threads addressing the 24p issue. However I was able to view your footage and have a better idea of what you're referring to. I have shot 60i forever and just did alot of color correction to saturate the images. Just looking for a little insight on the switch to 24p. Thanks. Jason Canon XHA1 \| Cineform Aspect HD

December 31st, 2008, 11:24 AM	#8
Daniel Fessak Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 123	Joel, I was looking at the clip you posted again. Looks great. Did you use any special filters or lens for it? Or use any effect when editing it?

December 31st, 2008, 05:01 PM	#9
Joel Peregrine Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 689	Hi Jason. I think a lot of people would be impressed by what some videographers are doing with weddings. The problem is that we're all fighting 25 years of mediocrity. I haven't noticed any of the judder problems with pans and fast camera moves, only when I slow it down below 66%. I'm still struggling with getting the right 'look' for contrast, gamma and saturation. My ultimate goal is to not have to do any CC work. With this one, which was literally the first shoot I did with the camera, I totally missed. The blacks were too crushed and I white balanced way too warm for the entire day. The latest ones I've shot should require much less work in post to make them look 'normal'. I'm not big on "looks" that create false coloration. I'm going for a realistic look that lets the content come through. Based on what I've seen here if I didn't ever use slow motion and didn't have to mix the footage in FCP in a way that required a different frame rate to match the HV30 I'd always shoot 24F with the A1.

December 31st, 2008, 06:14 PM	#11
Daniel Fessak Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 123	That looks really great for just regular 24f shooting. It has now gotten me thinking about shooting in it. I have a wedding in exactly one month and now seriously considering doing it in 24f. I will try to sneak into church on Saturday when it's empty to shoot some stuff and see how it would look for test footage. If only I had more camera setups to work with...