XH A1 vs. XH A1s

Taky Cheung · May 31st, 2009, 10:29 PM

Chris, I have two HV30s right now. One is for B-Roll and second one on Steadicam. I think I can sell one and keep one. What would you be reason you recommend me to keep the HV30? I know HV30 price been up lately.. that's odd!

Rodger Smith · June 2nd, 2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I think you should keep your HV30!

As long as the light is good the HV30 makes great images but when the light goes to pooh this camera will make images that is down in the low class DV image because the AGC cranks the image gain up to maybe somewhere in the -50's or so, maybe even -100db I mean this HV30 will practically make light out of no light BUT wow, how about grain? Looks like an old VHS with low light. Now if anyone can tell me now to turn the AGC "O-F-F" I'd really be appreciative. Moreover, I'd like to know how to turn it O-F-F on the XH-A1 . . and not by turning the switch off but by defeating the switch.

Anyone know how to do these things?

Also, on the whole of it, I'm not going to update my camera to the A1s even though the price has seemingly dropped to 3399 or 3499 I think I saw over at B&H just cuz who knows what will come out this fall. As for the better light supposedly of the HVX200A and HMC150 sensors . . hmmmm, had 'em and the XH-A1 does a better job for me in low light than they did.

Taky Cheung · June 2nd, 2009, 11:04 PM

There is a light trick (or cell phone trick) to do with HV30 to lock down gain. HV30 isn't good in low light condition but by locking the gain with the light trick, you got a clean video in low light.

Do a search or google on light trick or cell phone trick, you shall see. You also need a mini-SD card to do the trick too.

XH-A1 has a dedicated button to turn on/off gain and have 3 level switch to set gain db level.

You can get Live cash back 5% to buy Xh-A1s at JR.com (a legit reseller) end up $3329.

Shaun Walker · June 2nd, 2009, 11:27 PM

How do you guys like the main controls (especially for zooming with lens rings and main rocker, iris ring, focus ring/assist?) on the A1 series?

What about versus the Sony Zs and Vs?

For the record, my JVC HM100:

-- zoom rocker is too sloppy/imprecise/slack-laden for my demanding self ... and it's clearly a multi-stepped zoom speed control, too, not closer to or actually more finely variable

-- iris has a tiny little push-dial in the back, haven't tried it much yet at all but I don't like the concept and location

-- manual focus ring (it switches between focus and good zoom control, which is nice due to the first gripe) is quite nice and the focus assist is truly great ... it turns the viewfinder and/or LCD to gray and then color-highlights sharp edges in the scene as they appear (you can choose from 3 colors)

-- metal little gain switch is great (Lo/Med/Hi each user selectable 0-18db) and likewise for the adjacent White Balance w/ 3 Presets or two plue something else (you can choose daylight/3200/etc. or full auto for one button, too)

... and video/color/w.balance and audio quality and control is truly superb, though I still haven't seen it away from a computer screen or SDTV.

Bruce Pelley · January 9th, 2011, 11:08 PM

This may seem on the surface to be bordering on dumb, however, before I invest in excess of 3 grand for the camcorder and a few basic accessories, I want to make an informed decision and be satisfied with it. I bought my last camcorder (a GL-2) real close to 5 years ago, so it’s about time I upgraded!

This query is specifically addressed to those who either:

1) Had an Canon XH-A1 at some time then moved up to an A1s or:
2) May currently still have both models in their arsenal.

I’m very seriously considering buying an A1S in the near future.

1) Do the models have the same optics, share the exact same lens and picture quality?
2) Is there any discernable difference particularly in regards to the sharpness between the 2 models one way or the other?
3) Did the A1s model perhaps improve on the A1’s low light performance?

I only bring this up because (rightly or wrongly), several places online scored the A1 as somewhat superior in both the low light and the sharpness categories.

To me that doesn’t quite make sense as I would certainly hope the A1’s successor was equal or better in those 2 key areas. From experience, I know the A1 can be quite sharp!

Any feedback, opinions or comments are welcome.

Do you see the price of the A1s possibly going down once the XF-100/105 and the XA10 are released?

Thanks in advance.

Renny Hayes · January 11th, 2011, 05:48 PM

Regarding the "Scores" given to the A1: people hold older cameras to a lower standard. If you go to Slashcam, you'll find that the XH-A1 subjectively supposedly outperforms the Xf300 resolution-wise. Clearly, it doesn't, but the A1 wasn't up against such sharp competition in its hay day.

I own neither camera, but I can tell you that there's an unreasonable number of threads out there asking for the differences between the A1 and A1s. The majority are cosmetic, but there are some things that may interest you:

Split Internal/external recording with 4 audio tracks (only on the A1s)
Shotgun mic holder improved on A1s
6-pin firewire on A1s (the 4-pin on the A1 is known to break easily, and cost $220 in labor to replace, plus $40 in materials)

This is just off the top of my head. There are much more comprehensive lists out there. Just remember that the $3000 A1s is still in production, and pretty expensive compared to the A1, which is easily found for under $2000. Personally, I don't believe the minor upgrade or "in production" status warrant such a huge price gap.

Bruce Pelley · January 11th, 2011, 06:29 PM

Buying an A1 used could mean using a unit which has seen heavy use and potentially over 4 years old and more since its release was in 2006.

Also, my wife would not agree to this purchase buying one used as one never knows how the camera was treated,maintained and cared for.

It's a real shame Canon decided to drop the long standing 20x lens and pedal backwards to a 10x.

Although they tried to compensate a little and close the gap to some extent by making the TL-H58 tele- converter.

Allan Black · January 11th, 2011, 10:16 PM

I've got the A1 and A1s. Canon added improvements to the A1s based on user reports with the A1. If you Google A1s improvements on the A1 .. you'll eventually read them all. It's all good :)

A couple of handy ones are, you can assign the OIS to a Custom Function button on the body and the A1s has audio limiters which take away the necessity of glancing at the audio meters every few seconds. And the A1s comes with the improved hand strap supports, you'd have to send a new A1 in to the dealer for the free upgrade.

IMO the more expensive price for the A1s is worth it and obviously when the time comes to trade up, you'll get more. HTH

Cheers.

Chris Hurd · January 12th, 2011, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Pelley

It's a real shame Canon decided to drop the long standing 20x lens and pedal backwards to a 10x.

Sorry but this statement doesn't make sense. If you're referring to the XF100, Canon has not "pedaled backwards" and they haven't dropped anything. It's a simple matter of camera design. The XF100 is a compact version of the XF300. Since it's compact, it has a shorter lens barrel and therefore a smaller zoom ratio. If you want a long zoom on a small body then you're looking at smaller chips (think 1/4" like the GL2). Better to keep the 1/3" chips. If you want a long zoom, you've got it -- 18x on the XF300. Choose the right tool for the right job...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allan Black

Canon added improvements to the A1s based on user reports with the A1.

The A1S was a direct result of this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh...t-poll-v1.html

-- that particular discussion was the primary driver used by Canon to update the XH A1 / G1.

Bruce Pelley · January 12th, 2011, 02:34 PM

Chris,

Thanks for pointing out the sticky on the "wishlist" which directly contributed to the A1s existence.

Canon, going way back to the GL-1's and 2's (which I've owned or still own) consistently made it one of the specs through & until the XH series to incorporate 20x lens which was appreciated as I shoot from a considerable distance away in a large sanctuary from the "action".

The XF-300/305 duo are expensive and several times the cost of the A1 or A1s. I can't jusify their cost and believe I'm not alone in regards to that thought.

The 3 newer models probably will be very nice but have yet to be released, tested ,evaluated and proved.

A 10 powered lens does not offer the range needed.

I would hope that Canon chooses to revive the lens strength at some point at a more affordable pricepoint.

Allan and Renny,

Thanks for pointing out those upgrades/features.

The audio limiters heads up was especially appreciated as smooth, level and consistent audio has been an issue.

Is it worthwhile to get the handstrap upgrade or could it be assumed that a brand new one hopefully would already have it?

Thanks!

Allan Black · January 15th, 2011, 07:35 PM

Hi Bruce,

yep the A1s audio limiters while not Sound Devices quality, are great and the biggest improvement for the work I do. I can run the audio levels slightly higher and not worry (too much) about whether I'll get overload distortion or tape hiss. But they can be a trap and you can't become complacent and totally rely on them, you STILL have to check your audio levels regularly.

From the start A1 models came with less robust hand strap supports and some users reported their front one was breaking off under stress .. so Canon offered a free upgrade but they had to send their A1 into their nearest Canon repairer. I'd say the offer is still good, but call first.

My A1 still has the old supports and examining them, they'd need a good thump to break the front one off.

If I was looking to buy a used A1 and the seller said he'd had the supports replaced because the front one snapped off, that's probably an indication of how he looked after the cam .. and I'd pass.

Later in the XH-A1 production run new A1 models DID come with those new supports, and ALL the A1S models have them.

The HV40 and the A1s are the last DV TAPE cams by Canon .. and a couple of real beauties to go out on.

Cheers to the guys and gals at the plant :)

Bruce Pelley · January 15th, 2011, 11:40 PM

Hi Allan,

I've had the new A1s starter kit for just over a day.The audio improvements certainly are nice & comprehensive compare to the A1. There were suggestions that I in essence dump Canon (their "issue" was brand loyalty) and move on to Sony however my experience with the A1 was very positive and the transistion to its sucessor should be relatively smooth although I'll post some questions here in the near future.

My main problem was I live in a part of the world where I have to rely on online advice,reviews and anyhing other informations I can gather and glean from the web as their are no stores that stock pro/pro consumer camcorders nearby.

Even though its not 1920 by 1080 and doesn't have solid state built-in I can live with that!

Someday I may pick-up a data recorder and soon a onboard light.

Allan Black · January 17th, 2011, 02:46 PM

Cool Bruce .. have fun :)

Cheers.

Matthew Amirkhani · January 17th, 2011, 08:16 PM

Hey Bruce,

Glad you got the A1s. Enjoy it.

Matthew

Christopher Icha · February 7th, 2011, 04:47 AM

I read somewhere that the A1s doesn't have the "standby switch" next to the record button, like the original A1. Is this true? If this is the case, why hasn't anyone mentioned it in the comparisons? It's quite a big deal for me as I use this switch extensively. I've been trying to look at pictures of an A1s but that part always seems to be blocked by the jackpack.

May 31st, 2009, 10:29 PM	#46
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	Chris, I have two HV30s right now. One is for B-Roll and second one on Steadicam. I think I can sell one and keep one. What would you be reason you recommend me to keep the HV30? I know HV30 price been up lately.. that's odd! __________________ LA Color Pros Blog RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator

June 2nd, 2009, 11:04 PM	#48
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	There is a light trick (or cell phone trick) to do with HV30 to lock down gain. HV30 isn't good in low light condition but by locking the gain with the light trick, you got a clean video in low light. Do a search or google on light trick or cell phone trick, you shall see. You also need a mini-SD card to do the trick too. XH-A1 has a dedicated button to turn on/off gain and have 3 level switch to set gain db level. You can get Live cash back 5% to buy Xh-A1s at JR.com (a legit reseller) end up $3329. __________________ LA Color Pros Blog RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator

June 2nd, 2009, 11:27 PM	#49
Shaun Walker Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Eureka, Calif. Posts: 98	Controls? How do you guys like the main controls (especially for zooming with lens rings and main rocker, iris ring, focus ring/assist?) on the A1 series? What about versus the Sony Zs and Vs? For the record, my JVC HM100: -- zoom rocker is too sloppy/imprecise/slack-laden for my demanding self ... and it's clearly a multi-stepped zoom speed control, too, not closer to or actually more finely variable -- iris has a tiny little push-dial in the back, haven't tried it much yet at all but I don't like the concept and location -- manual focus ring (it switches between focus and good zoom control, which is nice due to the first gripe) is quite nice and the focus assist is truly great ... it turns the viewfinder and/or LCD to gray and then color-highlights sharp edges in the scene as they appear (you can choose from 3 colors) -- metal little gain switch is great (Lo/Med/Hi each user selectable 0-18db) and likewise for the adjacent White Balance w/ 3 Presets or two plue something else (you can choose daylight/3200/etc. or full auto for one button, too) ... and video/color/w.balance and audio quality and control is truly superb, though I still haven't seen it away from a computer screen or SDTV.

January 9th, 2011, 11:08 PM	#50
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	A1 or A1s better? This may seem on the surface to be bordering on dumb, however, before I invest in excess of 3 grand for the camcorder and a few basic accessories, I want to make an informed decision and be satisfied with it. I bought my last camcorder (a GL-2) real close to 5 years ago, so it’s about time I upgraded! This query is specifically addressed to those who either: 1) Had an Canon XH-A1 at some time then moved up to an A1s or: 2) May currently still have both models in their arsenal. I’m very seriously considering buying an A1S in the near future. 1) Do the models have the same optics, share the exact same lens and picture quality? 2) Is there any discernable difference particularly in regards to the sharpness between the 2 models one way or the other? 3) Did the A1s model perhaps improve on the A1’s low light performance? I only bring this up because (rightly or wrongly), several places online scored the A1 as somewhat superior in both the low light and the sharpness categories. To me that doesn’t quite make sense as I would certainly hope the A1’s successor was equal or better in those 2 key areas. From experience, I know the A1 can be quite sharp! Any feedback, opinions or comments are welcome. Do you see the price of the A1s possibly going down once the XF-100/105 and the XA10 are released? Thanks in advance.

January 11th, 2011, 10:16 PM	#53
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,926	I've got the A1 and A1s. Canon added improvements to the A1s based on user reports with the A1. If you Google A1s improvements on the A1 .. you'll eventually read them all. It's all good :) A couple of handy ones are, you can assign the OIS to a Custom Function button on the body and the A1s has audio limiters which take away the necessity of glancing at the audio meters every few seconds. And the A1s comes with the improved hand strap supports, you'd have to send a new A1 in to the dealer for the free upgrade. IMO the more expensive price for the A1s is worth it and obviously when the time comes to trade up, you'll get more. HTH Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

January 11th, 2011, 05:48 PM	#51
Renny Hayes Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 26	Regarding the "Scores" given to the A1: people hold older cameras to a lower standard. If you go to Slashcam, you'll find that the XH-A1 subjectively supposedly outperforms the Xf300 resolution-wise. Clearly, it doesn't, but the A1 wasn't up against such sharp competition in its hay day. I own neither camera, but I can tell you that there's an unreasonable number of threads out there asking for the differences between the A1 and A1s. The majority are cosmetic, but there are some things that may interest you: Split Internal/external recording with 4 audio tracks (only on the A1s) Shotgun mic holder improved on A1s 6-pin firewire on A1s (the 4-pin on the A1 is known to break easily, and cost $220 in labor to replace, plus $40 in materials) This is just off the top of my head. There are much more comprehensive lists out there. Just remember that the $3000 A1s is still in production, and pretty expensive compared to the A1, which is easily found for under $2000. Personally, I don't believe the minor upgrade or "in production" status warrant such a huge price gap.

January 11th, 2011, 06:29 PM	#52
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Buying an A1 used could mean using a unit which has seen heavy use and potentially over 4 years old and more since its release was in 2006. Also, my wife would not agree to this purchase buying one used as one never knows how the camera was treated,maintained and cared for. It's a real shame Canon decided to drop the long standing 20x lens and pedal backwards to a 10x. Although they tried to compensate a little and close the gap to some extent by making the TL-H58 tele- converter.

January 12th, 2011, 02:34 PM	#55
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Chris, Thanks for pointing out the sticky on the "wishlist" which directly contributed to the A1s existence. Canon, going way back to the GL-1's and 2's (which I've owned or still own) consistently made it one of the specs through & until the XH series to incorporate 20x lens which was appreciated as I shoot from a considerable distance away in a large sanctuary from the "action". The XF-300/305 duo are expensive and several times the cost of the A1 or A1s. I can't jusify their cost and believe I'm not alone in regards to that thought. The 3 newer models probably will be very nice but have yet to be released, tested ,evaluated and proved. A 10 powered lens does not offer the range needed. I would hope that Canon chooses to revive the lens strength at some point at a more affordable pricepoint. Allan and Renny, Thanks for pointing out those upgrades/features. The audio limiters heads up was especially appreciated as smooth, level and consistent audio has been an issue. Is it worthwhile to get the handstrap upgrade or could it be assumed that a brand new one hopefully would already have it? Thanks!

January 15th, 2011, 07:35 PM	#56
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,926	Hi Bruce, yep the A1s audio limiters while not Sound Devices quality, are great and the biggest improvement for the work I do. I can run the audio levels slightly higher and not worry (too much) about whether I'll get overload distortion or tape hiss. But they can be a trap and you can't become complacent and totally rely on them, you STILL have to check your audio levels regularly. From the start A1 models came with less robust hand strap supports and some users reported their front one was breaking off under stress .. so Canon offered a free upgrade but they had to send their A1 into their nearest Canon repairer. I'd say the offer is still good, but call first. My A1 still has the old supports and examining them, they'd need a good thump to break the front one off. If I was looking to buy a used A1 and the seller said he'd had the supports replaced because the front one snapped off, that's probably an indication of how he looked after the cam .. and I'd pass. Later in the XH-A1 production run new A1 models DID come with those new supports, and ALL the A1S models have them. The HV40 and the A1s are the last DV TAPE cams by Canon .. and a couple of real beauties to go out on. Cheers to the guys and gals at the plant :) __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

January 15th, 2011, 11:40 PM	#57
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Hi Allan, I've had the new A1s starter kit for just over a day.The audio improvements certainly are nice & comprehensive compare to the A1. There were suggestions that I in essence dump Canon (their "issue" was brand loyalty) and move on to Sony however my experience with the A1 was very positive and the transistion to its sucessor should be relatively smooth although I'll post some questions here in the near future. My main problem was I live in a part of the world where I have to rely on online advice,reviews and anyhing other informations I can gather and glean from the web as their are no stores that stock pro/pro consumer camcorders nearby. Even though its not 1920 by 1080 and doesn't have solid state built-in I can live with that! Someday I may pick-up a data recorder and soon a onboard light.

January 17th, 2011, 02:46 PM	#58
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,926	Cool Bruce .. have fun :) Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

January 17th, 2011, 08:16 PM	#59
Matthew Amirkhani Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 279	Hey Bruce, Glad you got the A1s. Enjoy it. Matthew __________________ Canon XHA1, Brevis 35mm, Manfrotto 028,501,Vegas Pro 10e

February 7th, 2011, 04:47 AM	#60
Christopher Icha New Boot Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: London: United Kingdom Posts: 22	A1s Standby switch question I read somewhere that the A1s doesn't have the "standby switch" next to the record button, like the original A1. Is this true? If this is the case, why hasn't anyone mentioned it in the comparisons? It's quite a big deal for me as I use this switch extensively. I've been trying to look at pictures of an A1s but that part always seems to be blocked by the jackpack.