short footage comparision (please help) at DVinfo.net

J.J. Kim · September 9th, 2008, 08:04 PM

So I shot this wedding as 2nd camera, and I used my lovely XH-A1 (with no preset), and main cam was sony pd170 by another cameraman. The company that I shot for commented that our footage looked too different (well, of course), but I tried my best to color correct mine to match the sont one while I was editing. But his camera looked too saturated.. white balance maybe? I dunno, but everything looked too .. redish?..
So I brought up my brightness and contrast to 33, and 39 (on Premiere Pro CS3).
Mine looks pretty good for low light and no preset shooting.
Here is the video@ Comparison Canon vs Sony on Vimeo
What do you think? Should I fix 'his' camera a bit to match to 'mine'?
I am almost done with editing (99.8%), so it would be pain to fix all his...
Is this my fault or my camera? Or his fault? Or just different..?
Future tip for this situation? I have 5 more wedding with this guy rest of the year.
Thank you tons ahead!

EDIT: video is still converting there... please wait...

EDIT EDIT: it's up now.

JJ

Bill Grant · September 9th, 2008, 09:57 PM

Well JJ,
While I'm waiting on the clip, this seems like a very bizarre situation. You and another guy are shooting a wedding video for some other company but you are editing? You are trying to do several things that are different. Sony vs. Canon, DV vs. HDV, 16:9 vs 4:3. It is hard to believe that anyone would think those two cameras could match unless they just don't know anything about cameras. Even if you are shooting SD on the A1, the color space between these two cameras is going to be very different. I think there have been presets developed to mimic the PD-170, but this sounds like a losing battle that you should not be fighting. just MHO.
Bill

J.J. Kim · September 9th, 2008, 10:23 PM

i know, i know.. sounds a little complicated..
here is the setup, though.
Right before I started my own production, I was freelancing, and I got picked up by this photo studio that is really good. The videographer who was main using sony is husband of the owner of the photo studio. I shoot AND edit for this studio as a freelancer, so, here is that.
It was shot SD 4:3 on my cam. I don't think the person who is reviewing the video is not an expert on videos. I already told her that I was allowed to use my own camera instead of borrowing from them (too much hastle.. and too small for me). I knew this was coming but I informed her that this is the best I can.
I don't know why vimeo is taking so long.... it's been 4 hours since uploading was done...
Please check the footage for a review, Bill.
Thank you!

JJ

Richard Gooderick · September 10th, 2008, 03:10 AM

Vimeo seems to have crashed?
This clip isn't downloading and I get a DB Connection error message when I try to access Vimeo via other URLs.
It's been erratic for a few weeks.

Richard Gooderick · September 10th, 2008, 03:21 AM

It's working again now.
I would fix his. Yours looks better.
I think I'd sit down and talk it through with him first.
It's an uphill battle to match.
If you've got five more weddings this year to do together why doesn't he buy an XH A1 and you could shoot HDV. Your clients will be happier. You might even make more money too.

Bill Grant · September 10th, 2008, 08:13 AM

JJ,
That's going to be a tough match. You're going to need to have the two frames, side by side. I would say also cut out the shot of his camera in the frame. But I agree they are radically different. There is no good trick to it. if you have 5 weddings, you could buy a used VX2100 (I sold mine for $1200) and match him up, and then sell it and get on with your life. I might do that just to get through these 5 weddings. It doesn't make alot of sense trying to match these 2 cams. This is like racing a buick riviera and a Ferari. No one should expect the Buick to even show up in this race...
Bill

J.J. Kim · September 10th, 2008, 08:34 AM

Thank you, Bill and Richard for your input.
They don't feel the need of switching to HDV yet. They claimed that no clients asked for it. Well, hell, I would recommand them HD to bring the price up a little as well, I mean how many people have widescreen TV these days...
I would get used camera for these gigs, but first, I have no money like now. Since I just opened up my own, I have been spending lots of money of computers, advertising (on korean newspaper, and yellow pages) and rents. I also moved to newer bigger place, too, for my baby.. I am broke! That's why I am still freelancing, cause I need money.
Also a couple more freelance that works for that studio have sony cams, so.. I would kinda lost the battle...
Maybe I will use VIVIDRGB preset from next wedding on. Or Panalook. They both look like they bring up the saturation of the colors, so.
Thank you so much, you guys..
I kinda knew there would not be so much solution for this problem, though...

JJ

Bill Pryor · September 10th, 2008, 08:55 AM

Looks to me it's more a matter of white balance. The first camera is a little too red, the second one a little desaturated. I'm just watching this on my old laptop, but it looks easily correctable with normal color correction tools. For future shoots, I'd set up both cameras side by side and A/B them on a decent monitor. Then come up with a setting that's fairly close on your Canon. The PD150 can also be tweaked a little bit, in terms of saturation.

J.J. Kim · September 10th, 2008, 08:59 AM

I actually brought up the contrast and brightness in post, and I guess desaturation happend there. Yeh, white balance on first one is a little off, and he has been shooting wedding for almost 11yeasr now.. hard to believe. I have been doing it for 1.5 years.

Russ Motyko · September 10th, 2008, 12:23 PM

Search for "TrueColor" preset on this forum. In my experience it produces saturated skin-tones much like the Sony.

Eric Weiss · September 10th, 2008, 01:05 PM

This is a simple color correction issue that should take no longer than 3 minutes.
Get both shots side by side. Reduce the reds and overall saturation on his until they match to your eye and you are good to go.

September 9th, 2008, 08:04 PM	#1
J.J. Kim Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Wheeling, IL Posts: 270	short footage comparision (please help) So I shot this wedding as 2nd camera, and I used my lovely XH-A1 (with no preset), and main cam was sony pd170 by another cameraman. The company that I shot for commented that our footage looked too different (well, of course), but I tried my best to color correct mine to match the sont one while I was editing. But his camera looked too saturated.. white balance maybe? I dunno, but everything looked too .. redish?.. So I brought up my brightness and contrast to 33, and 39 (on Premiere Pro CS3). Mine looks pretty good for low light and no preset shooting. Here is the video@ Comparison Canon vs Sony on Vimeo What do you think? Should I fix 'his' camera a bit to match to 'mine'? I am almost done with editing (99.8%), so it would be pain to fix all his... Is this my fault or my camera? Or his fault? Or just different..? Future tip for this situation? I have 5 more wedding with this guy rest of the year. Thank you tons ahead! EDIT: video is still converting there... please wait... EDIT EDIT: it's up now. JJ Last edited by J.J. Kim; September 10th, 2008 at 01:02 AM.

September 9th, 2008, 09:57 PM	#2
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Well JJ, While I'm waiting on the clip, this seems like a very bizarre situation. You and another guy are shooting a wedding video for some other company but you are editing? You are trying to do several things that are different. Sony vs. Canon, DV vs. HDV, 16:9 vs 4:3. It is hard to believe that anyone would think those two cameras could match unless they just don't know anything about cameras. Even if you are shooting SD on the A1, the color space between these two cameras is going to be very different. I think there have been presets developed to mimic the PD-170, but this sounds like a losing battle that you should not be fighting. just MHO. Bill __________________ Cinema Couture www.cinemacouture.com

September 10th, 2008, 03:10 AM	#4
Richard Gooderick Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 795	Vimeo seems to have crashed? This clip isn't downloading and I get a DB Connection error message when I try to access Vimeo via other URLs. It's been erratic for a few weeks. __________________ http://www.gooderick.com

September 10th, 2008, 03:21 AM	#5
Richard Gooderick Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 795	It's working again now. I would fix his. Yours looks better. I think I'd sit down and talk it through with him first. It's an uphill battle to match. If you've got five more weddings this year to do together why doesn't he buy an XH A1 and you could shoot HDV. Your clients will be happier. You might even make more money too. __________________ http://www.gooderick.com

September 10th, 2008, 08:13 AM	#6
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	JJ, That's going to be a tough match. You're going to need to have the two frames, side by side. I would say also cut out the shot of his camera in the frame. But I agree they are radically different. There is no good trick to it. if you have 5 weddings, you could buy a used VX2100 (I sold mine for $1200) and match him up, and then sell it and get on with your life. I might do that just to get through these 5 weddings. It doesn't make alot of sense trying to match these 2 cams. This is like racing a buick riviera and a Ferari. No one should expect the Buick to even show up in this race... Bill __________________ Cinema Couture www.cinemacouture.com

September 9th, 2008, 10:23 PM	#3
J.J. Kim Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Wheeling, IL Posts: 270	i know, i know.. sounds a little complicated.. here is the setup, though. Right before I started my own production, I was freelancing, and I got picked up by this photo studio that is really good. The videographer who was main using sony is husband of the owner of the photo studio. I shoot AND edit for this studio as a freelancer, so, here is that. It was shot SD 4:3 on my cam. I don't think the person who is reviewing the video is not an expert on videos. I already told her that I was allowed to use my own camera instead of borrowing from them (too much hastle.. and too small for me). I knew this was coming but I informed her that this is the best I can. I don't know why vimeo is taking so long.... it's been 4 hours since uploading was done... Please check the footage for a review, Bill. Thank you! JJ

September 10th, 2008, 08:34 AM	#7
J.J. Kim Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Wheeling, IL Posts: 270	Thank you, Bill and Richard for your input. They don't feel the need of switching to HDV yet. They claimed that no clients asked for it. Well, hell, I would recommand them HD to bring the price up a little as well, I mean how many people have widescreen TV these days... I would get used camera for these gigs, but first, I have no money like now. Since I just opened up my own, I have been spending lots of money of computers, advertising (on korean newspaper, and yellow pages) and rents. I also moved to newer bigger place, too, for my baby.. I am broke! That's why I am still freelancing, cause I need money. Also a couple more freelance that works for that studio have sony cams, so.. I would kinda lost the battle... Maybe I will use VIVIDRGB preset from next wedding on. Or Panalook. They both look like they bring up the saturation of the colors, so. Thank you so much, you guys.. I kinda knew there would not be so much solution for this problem, though... JJ

September 10th, 2008, 08:55 AM	#8
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Looks to me it's more a matter of white balance. The first camera is a little too red, the second one a little desaturated. I'm just watching this on my old laptop, but it looks easily correctable with normal color correction tools. For future shoots, I'd set up both cameras side by side and A/B them on a decent monitor. Then come up with a setting that's fairly close on your Canon. The PD150 can also be tweaked a little bit, in terms of saturation.

September 10th, 2008, 08:59 AM	#9
J.J. Kim Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Wheeling, IL Posts: 270	I actually brought up the contrast and brightness in post, and I guess desaturation happend there. Yeh, white balance on first one is a little off, and he has been shooting wedding for almost 11yeasr now.. hard to believe. I have been doing it for 1.5 years.

September 10th, 2008, 12:23 PM	#10
Russ Motyko Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 56	Search for "TrueColor" preset on this forum. In my experience it produces saturated skin-tones much like the Sony.

September 10th, 2008, 01:05 PM	#11
Eric Weiss Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philly,PA Posts: 360	This is a simple color correction issue that should take no longer than 3 minutes. Get both shots side by side. Reduce the reds and overall saturation on his until they match to your eye and you are good to go.