What Audio Levels are best on the XH A1?

[Stuart Graham]

Richard: Thanks for the input. I find all the audio stuff pretty inpenetrable too. Maybe Jay Rose works for a high end 24 bit recorder firm.

Ivan: So you record direct to a laptop Ivan? That sounds like a good idea, well, except that I don't have a laptop. Do you get good quality that way? Can you plug an XLR cable into the 24 bit soundcard? Are these cards recording genuine 24 bit audio? Would it be essential to have a mixer to record to a PC? I could always take my old desktop PC on set :| Sorry, that's a lot of questions!

[Ivan Mosny]

Quality of the sound depend not from a thing that only record a digital data. A laptop works here as good as another recorder. With a good 24bit soundcard you have an excellent sound recorder. But you need microphone preamplifier with phantom power for condenser mic.
Behringer BCA 2000 ist a cheap mixer with mic preamps an integrated 24bit soundcard - but there are some smaler units there.
I am using it as a mobile soundstudio - most for recordings voice overs. I have 2 such units by my "artists" directly at they home for recordings small projects an sending it per email to me.
But by filming i am recording directly to the camera - of course by maximal possible level.

[Stuart Graham]

Thanks again Ivan for your excellent advice.

The Behringer BCA 2000 certainly looks impressive aand the price is only about 140 pounds in the UK. Do you know how big it is?

Do you get recording software with these units? Or what software would you recommend?

[Ivan Mosny]

It is 330mm x 100mm x 300mm. You can use any software that recognize system Soundcard.
I am working (recording an editing) with Sound Forge.

[Mark Fry]

The downside of cheap mixers, such as the Behringer, is the quality of the microphone preamps is often rather poor. This may be the reason that Jay Rose (an independant sound engineer with long experience of sound for movies and broadcasting, and generally a reliable source of advice) is rather scathing about domestic 24-bit recorders. To get good quality digital sound, you need a combination of a good mic, a good preamp (to make the most of the mic's signal) and a good analogue-to-digital (A-to-D) converter. Ideally, each componant should do no harm to your signal. Very often, the difference between cheap and expensive mixers or soundcards is the quality of the preamps and A-to-D converters. My guess is that you will only hear a difference from 24-bit recording (compared with the XH-A1's built-in audio) if your preamps and A-to-D converters are sufficiently good.

Of course, the law of diminishing returns applies here, just like anywhere else, and there's no point buying recording gear that's way more expensive than your camera and microphone. But don't skimp on it, either.

[Ivan Mosny]

Originally Posted by Mark Fry

My guess is that you will only hear a difference from 24-bit recording (compared with the XH-A1's built-in audio) if your preamps and A-to-D converters are sufficiently good.

If you record directly to XHA1 with a enough reserve in level to avoid clipping - you have to increase Levels in postproduction. There is a big difference in soundquality between 16 bit and 24 bit recording after increasing volume from -12dB to 0dB.
BCA 2000 from Behringer is a plastic thing - but it has for the price excellent mic preams with (built in limiter an noise gate) and definitelly lower noise level as cheaper little Soundcraft mixers.
You can download here a little soundfile from unexpensive CAD GXL 2400 microphone on BCA 2000 recorded into Soundforge atfer normalising amplitudes to 0dB and downmix with the piano. Converted to 16bit and saved as mp3. And the voice still sounds great.
www.arkdelfina.neostrada.pl/behr.mp3

[Corbin Thomas]

in all this discussion about sound level i figured was the best place to ask this question... i recently purchased an audio technica wireless lapel mic system. all batteries are new, ive adjusted the gain to max on the transmitter and on the receiver in hopes to get a good level to tape on an xlh1. on the camera i have selected the right mic output and even cranked my gain to max there as well. IM NOT GETTING MORE THEN 2 dots/bars when someone is yelling.

ive taken the same wireless system and plugged it into a dvx100. same result

i have also run this system directly into my pro tools board. (here is where it gets weird) the thing works perfectly there.

my question is.... why? im really confused. do i need another preamp?

PLEASE HELP!

thanks guys

[Bill Busby]

My first guess would be maybe you had both cams selected to line level instead of mic level?

[Corbin Thomas]

you are right! i was messing with it again after i posted. that was the case, apparently on an xlh1 there is a small lag between switching the inputs and i was just too impatient when i tried that last time.

thank you sir!

[Bill Busby]

Glad you got it sorted out.

[Peppo Wagner]

Originally Posted by Mark Fry

...
2) Feed one mic into both channels and set different manual levels on each, one for "normal" sound, the other for loud sound. In post, use the "normal" one unless it's distorted, and hope the "loud" track is OK throughout. You'll still have to keep a careful eye on the levels and adjust as you go along, but at least you have a bit of a safety net. (This will work with the internal mics too, so long as the source is more-or-less in front of you.)
...

Hi Mark,

great idea, I considered the same, but how can achieve that on the XHA1? As soon as you connect a mic to CH1 and select recording to CH1+CH2 you have the same audio level on both channels. Any secrets to achieve what you suggested?

THX
peppo

[Bill Busby]

Originally Posted by Peppo Wagner

Hi Mark,

great idea, I considered the same, but how can achieve that on the XHA1? As soon as you connect a mic to CH1 and select recording to CH1+CH2 you have the same audio level on both channels. Any secrets to achieve what you suggested?

THX
peppo

Use a XLR Y cable

[Stuart Graham]

If I went down the recording to lap top route using a 24 bit soundcard as you suggested Ivan. Would it be best to sync the audio to the video footage using a clapper board?

Would the sync definitely work? In other words would my camera and the audio recorder definitely record at the same speed as if it was slightly different the sync would gradually drift out over a long scene.

Thanks!

[Ivan Mosny]

Digital Equipments are synchronized in time with much higher frequency as needed to synchronize audio. Normally should there not be a problem.

[Stuart Graham]

Thanks Ivan! I'll try to sort out a 24-bit system for my next film. It was very kind of you to give me so much advice.