What's wrong with my A1 at DVinfo.net

Kiflom Bahta · July 16th, 2008, 10:24 PM

I tried everything to figure this out but no luck. If you see the footage anything with horizontal line vibrate and flicker. It is worse when you see on tv. Here a sample http://www.vimeo.com/1353884. Thanks.

Khoi Pham · July 16th, 2008, 10:48 PM

Most likely from poor downconvert software, you don't see that if you watch it on a HDTV do you?

Kiflom Bahta · July 16th, 2008, 10:55 PM

This is SD footage and it was captured with premier pro 2. I don't know what to do, it only happens with my A1.

Bill Busby · July 16th, 2008, 11:03 PM

I always thought the A1's SD was mediocre at best. I always notice too much aliasing on movement with anything detailed.

Michael Wisniewski · July 16th, 2008, 11:07 PM

Might also be the following:

1. Might be artifacts from compression (does the XH A1 downconvert from HDV to get it's SD to tape?). That wall has lots and lots of small tiny details, which is a great way to break many compression schemes, especially HDV.

2. Might be the shutter speed matching the frequency of the fluorescent lights. Change the shutter speed and you might be able to lessen the effect.

3. It might be moiré. This is a typical problem with video cameras, usually with clothing that has very detailed patterns. If it is moire, then there's nothing wrong with your camera, it's just the way it works. You just have to work around those types of patterns. I do see some moiré in the shots of the baskets, and it "seems" to match the movement of the walls, just not as severe. But I'm just guessing.

- Moiré entry on Wikipedia
- An example of Moiré

Bill Busby · July 16th, 2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiflom Bahta

This is SD footage

I was under the impression this was shot on SD.....

Kiflom Bahta · July 16th, 2008, 11:26 PM

It is was shot stright SD.!!!

Chris Soucy · July 16th, 2008, 11:30 PM

Can't really say why it's doing what it's doing, but have seen any number of posts and video where SD shot as SD on an A1/ G1 looks pretty ropey.

The best suggestion I can make is to shoot in HDV and downconvert in PP2.

Can't guarantee it will cure it but a good chance it will.

CS

Michael Wisniewski · July 16th, 2008, 11:30 PM

Yeah, I'm wondering if the XH A1, creates it's SD from HDV and then writes that to tape. That may explain why there is a breakdown in movement in the SD image that's not normally there? Just speculating, since I don't really know. But those CCD chips should be giving a gee-whiz holy-cow SD image, but ...

Oh well, shoot it in HDV next time, then downconvert, you'll probably get a better image.

Chris Soucy · July 16th, 2008, 11:35 PM

I think by CH's rules you owe me a beer, just stick it in the post will you!

CS

PS: Boy, that Michael doesn't hang about!

Brian David Melnyk · July 17th, 2008, 12:51 AM

what are Chris Hurd's rules?
i fear breaking them and owing virtual beer!
i bought some virtual beer from eBay, but by the time they arrived, they were warm. so i bought a virtual fridge. works great, and virtually CFC free.

Chris Soucy · July 17th, 2008, 01:08 AM

for the full list, as I might find myself owing an aweful lot of beer to an aweful lot of people.

Hmm, "virtually" getting pi##ed, must have it's merits.

Can't say it rings my chimes, but there you go.

(Humble and sincere appologes to Kiflom for beernapping his thread).

CS

Kiflom Bahta · July 17th, 2008, 03:44 AM

Micheal, if you think it is moiré. How come i don't see on my dvx?

Kiflom Bahta · July 17th, 2008, 06:51 AM

Hey guys, i am willing to put some $$$, for any one who can solve this problem. Thx

Richard Hunter · July 17th, 2008, 06:52 AM

I would say that the vimeo clip flickering lines are mainly due to scaling and compression artifacts. I downloaded the original AVI file and it is much cleaner.

The original appears to be progressive footage. Is it possible that somewhere during the editing process your NLE has deinterlaced it when it shouldn't have? This will degrade the footage in a similar way too.

Richard

July 16th, 2008, 10:24 PM	#1
Kiflom Bahta Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 203	What's wrong with my A1 I tried everything to figure this out but no luck. If you see the footage anything with horizontal line vibrate and flicker. It is worse when you see on tv. Here a sample http://www.vimeo.com/1353884. Thanks.

July 16th, 2008, 10:48 PM	#2
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	Most likely from poor downconvert software, you don't see that if you watch it on a HDTV do you? __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

July 16th, 2008, 11:07 PM	#5
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Might also be the following: 1. Might be artifacts from compression (does the XH A1 downconvert from HDV to get it's SD to tape?). That wall has lots and lots of small tiny details, which is a great way to break many compression schemes, especially HDV. 2. Might be the shutter speed matching the frequency of the fluorescent lights. Change the shutter speed and you might be able to lessen the effect. 3. It might be moiré. This is a typical problem with video cameras, usually with clothing that has very detailed patterns. If it is moire, then there's nothing wrong with your camera, it's just the way it works. You just have to work around those types of patterns. I do see some moiré in the shots of the baskets, and it "seems" to match the movement of the walls, just not as severe. But I'm just guessing. - Moiré entry on Wikipedia - An example of Moiré __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

July 16th, 2008, 11:30 PM	#8
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hi Kiflom........... Can't really say why it's doing what it's doing, but have seen any number of posts and video where SD shot as SD on an A1/ G1 looks pretty ropey. The best suggestion I can make is to shoot in HDV and downconvert in PP2. Can't guarantee it will cure it but a good chance it will. CS

July 16th, 2008, 11:30 PM	#9
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Yeah, I'm wondering if the XH A1, creates it's SD from HDV and then writes that to tape. That may explain why there is a breakdown in movement in the SD image that's not normally there? Just speculating, since I don't really know. But those CCD chips should be giving a gee-whiz holy-cow SD image, but ... Oh well, shoot it in HDV next time, then downconvert, you'll probably get a better image. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

July 16th, 2008, 10:55 PM	#3
Kiflom Bahta Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 203	This is SD footage and it was captured with premier pro 2. I don't know what to do, it only happens with my A1.

July 16th, 2008, 11:03 PM	#4
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	I always thought the A1's SD was mediocre at best. I always notice too much aliasing on movement with anything detailed.

July 16th, 2008, 11:26 PM	#7
Kiflom Bahta Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 203	It is was shot stright SD.!!!

July 16th, 2008, 11:35 PM	#10
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hey Michael........... I think by CH's rules you owe me a beer, just stick it in the post will you! CS PS: Boy, that Michael doesn't hang about! Last edited by Chris Soucy; July 16th, 2008 at 11:57 PM. Reason: +

July 17th, 2008, 12:51 AM	#11
Brian David Melnyk Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Winnipeg Canada Posts: 532	what are Chris Hurd's rules? i fear breaking them and owing virtual beer! i bought some virtual beer from eBay, but by the time they arrived, they were warm. so i bought a virtual fridge. works great, and virtually CFC free.

July 17th, 2008, 01:08 AM	#12
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Too scared to ask...... for the full list, as I might find myself owing an aweful lot of beer to an aweful lot of people. Hmm, "virtually" getting pi##ed, must have it's merits. Can't say it rings my chimes, but there you go. (Humble and sincere appologes to Kiflom for beernapping his thread). CS

July 17th, 2008, 03:44 AM	#13
Kiflom Bahta Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 203	Micheal, if you think it is moiré. How come i don't see on my dvx?

July 17th, 2008, 06:51 AM	#14
Kiflom Bahta Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 203	Hey guys, i am willing to put some $$$, for any one who can solve this problem. Thx

July 17th, 2008, 06:52 AM	#15
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	I would say that the vimeo clip flickering lines are mainly due to scaling and compression artifacts. I downloaded the original AVI file and it is much cleaner. The original appears to be progressive footage. Is it possible that somewhere during the editing process your NLE has deinterlaced it when it shouldn't have? This will degrade the footage in a similar way too. Richard