SD 25F post production at DVinfo.net

Andrew Rowe · July 5th, 2008, 10:59 AM

I will be shooting something next week and the director has asked for 16:9SD 25P. I've so far avoided using 25F, preferring interlaced footage to progressive in general, and was wondering about the pitfalls, especially with regard to capture into an NLE (FCP in this case) using a camera other than an XHA1 (I could lend the editor my A1, but distance is a problem).

1. Is it possible to capture using a non-XH camcorder?
2. What FCP settings for SD 25F have been found to work (can't find any mention of this in the post production section - though HDV 25F is talked about a lot)? SD is recorded as 50i, whereas HDV is recorded as 25P, so should SD 25F be captured with the NLE set to 50i??
3. Any other issues with 25F...

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

Everts Alredjo · July 5th, 2008, 04:04 PM

Sorry man you will need a canon camera .
If the editor can get his hand on hv20 or hv30 pal version camera ,you won't need to
send your xha1 for capturing.

The xha1 can shoot at SD 25p or 25f and 50i.

I don't know much about FCP but I believe there should
be a preset here
or one you could make by playing with the project settings in FCP.

Goodluck

Bill Pryor · July 5th, 2008, 04:13 PM

If you shoot SD, even in the 25F mode, they should be able to capture it with any deck, assuming the PAL cameras work like the NTSC. I've shot 24F before in standard def, and the client captured the footage with his Sony deck. With HDV, you have to have a Canon HDV camera to play the 24 or 30F tapes.

Andrew Rowe · July 7th, 2008, 08:43 AM

I think that makes sense to me, Bill, since the 25P SD signal is recorded to tape as 50i (whereas HDV 25P is recorded as 25P). Both are output as a 50i signal (but still progressive in the sense that the pixels and fields were captured simultaneouly). So with HDV the XHA1 is converting 25P to 50i on playback - therfore you need an XHA1 or similar to playback on...

Jim Press · July 10th, 2008, 05:30 AM

Hi Andrew,

[QUOTE=Andrew Rowe;903412]I will be shooting something next week and the director has asked for 16:9SD 25P. I've so far avoided using 25F, preferring interlaced footage to progressive in general, and was wondering about the pitfalls, especially with regard to capture into an NLE (FCP in this case) using a camera other than an XHA1 (I could lend the editor my A1, but distance is a problem).

Yes you'll need a Canon to capture Canon footage. Another option (possibly not preferable) if you don't want to send your camera to the editor, would be for you to capture the footage to an external harddrive and ship it to your editor (assuming you have FCP and can capture your footage).

1. Is it possible to capture using a non-XH camcorder?

Nup.

2. What FCP settings for SD 25F have been found to work (can't find any mention of this in the post production section - though HDV 25F is talked about a lot)? SD is recorded as 50i, whereas HDV is recorded as 25P, so should SD 25F be captured with the NLE set to 50i??

Easy set up 25p works. Also, have you/your director considered filming in HD and downconverting the final edited product to SD then? You'll get much better product...but of course it might not matter/be up to you etc. (I do this regularly with great results.)

3. Any other issues with 25F...

Only that it's heaps better than interlaced (!!--just seeing if anyone will bite).

Good luck with it all.

James

Mark Fry · July 10th, 2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Press

1. Is it possible to capture using a non-XH camcorder?

Nup.

As stated above, 24F/25F/30F footage can be captured using HV10, HV20, HV30 and XL-H1 cameras, as well as XH-series, but not from a non-Canon HDV camera or deck. 50i/60i can be captured in any HDV camera or drive (at least, that supports HDV2 1080i). It has been said here several times that the HV cameras might be thought of as decks for the XH and XL-H cameras, which just happen to have lenses as well. :-)

Andrew Rowe · July 11th, 2008, 04:43 AM

Just to follow up and confirm what Bill said earlier: I have tried digitizing SD 25F footage on a cheap 4:3 SD Panasonic handicam and it went without a hitch. So you only need a Canon for progressive HDV footage.

Shooting HDV, both the picture and sound are much more compressed, so surely it's better to shoot SD if you want SD end product - that way you avoid any conversion artefacts etc? But another persuasive reason NOT to shoot in HDV and convert is that the editor is capturing the footage using an SD camcorder - he lives miles away so I don't really want to leave my camera with him.

I'm not sold on the 25P look - seems like a ubiquitous gimmick (the BBC use it a lot now on drama, to try to give the impression they're still shooting on Super 16). Prefer smoother 50i footage. But I may reassess after the project at hand.

Bill Pryor · July 11th, 2008, 08:58 AM

I guess some missed the part of your original post about shooting *SD* at 25F. As you found, you can capture it with any DV deck or camera.

I think in your case it probably makes sense to continue to do that. I shoot 24F for all my projects, even though they end up SD, but nobody loads the footage but me, so it's not a problem.

July 5th, 2008, 10:59 AM	#1
Andrew Rowe Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 39	SD 25F post production I will be shooting something next week and the director has asked for 16:9SD 25P. I've so far avoided using 25F, preferring interlaced footage to progressive in general, and was wondering about the pitfalls, especially with regard to capture into an NLE (FCP in this case) using a camera other than an XHA1 (I could lend the editor my A1, but distance is a problem). 1. Is it possible to capture using a non-XH camcorder? 2. What FCP settings for SD 25F have been found to work (can't find any mention of this in the post production section - though HDV 25F is talked about a lot)? SD is recorded as 50i, whereas HDV is recorded as 25P, so should SD 25F be captured with the NLE set to 50i?? 3. Any other issues with 25F... Thanks in advance, Andrew

July 5th, 2008, 04:04 PM	#2
Everts Alredjo New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Suriname Posts: 14	Sorry man you will need a canon camera . If the editor can get his hand on hv20 or hv30 pal version camera ,you won't need to send your xha1 for capturing. The xha1 can shoot at SD 25p or 25f and 50i. I don't know much about FCP but I believe there should be a preset here or one you could make by playing with the project settings in FCP. Goodluck

July 5th, 2008, 04:13 PM	#3
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	If you shoot SD, even in the 25F mode, they should be able to capture it with any deck, assuming the PAL cameras work like the NTSC. I've shot 24F before in standard def, and the client captured the footage with his Sony deck. With HDV, you have to have a Canon HDV camera to play the 24 or 30F tapes.

July 7th, 2008, 08:43 AM	#4
Andrew Rowe Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 39	I think that makes sense to me, Bill, since the 25P SD signal is recorded to tape as 50i (whereas HDV 25P is recorded as 25P). Both are output as a 50i signal (but still progressive in the sense that the pixels and fields were captured simultaneouly). So with HDV the XHA1 is converting 25P to 50i on playback - therfore you need an XHA1 or similar to playback on...

July 10th, 2008, 05:30 AM	#5
Jim Press Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 55	Hi Andrew, [QUOTE=Andrew Rowe;903412]I will be shooting something next week and the director has asked for 16:9SD 25P. I've so far avoided using 25F, preferring interlaced footage to progressive in general, and was wondering about the pitfalls, especially with regard to capture into an NLE (FCP in this case) using a camera other than an XHA1 (I could lend the editor my A1, but distance is a problem). Yes you'll need a Canon to capture Canon footage. Another option (possibly not preferable) if you don't want to send your camera to the editor, would be for you to capture the footage to an external harddrive and ship it to your editor (assuming you have FCP and can capture your footage). 1. Is it possible to capture using a non-XH camcorder? Nup. 2. What FCP settings for SD 25F have been found to work (can't find any mention of this in the post production section - though HDV 25F is talked about a lot)? SD is recorded as 50i, whereas HDV is recorded as 25P, so should SD 25F be captured with the NLE set to 50i?? Easy set up 25p works. Also, have you/your director considered filming in HD and downconverting the final edited product to SD then? You'll get much better product...but of course it might not matter/be up to you etc. (I do this regularly with great results.) 3. Any other issues with 25F... Only that it's heaps better than interlaced (!!--just seeing if anyone will bite). Good luck with it all. James

July 11th, 2008, 04:43 AM	#7
Andrew Rowe Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 39	Just to follow up and confirm what Bill said earlier: I have tried digitizing SD 25F footage on a cheap 4:3 SD Panasonic handicam and it went without a hitch. So you only need a Canon for progressive HDV footage. Shooting HDV, both the picture and sound are much more compressed, so surely it's better to shoot SD if you want SD end product - that way you avoid any conversion artefacts etc? But another persuasive reason NOT to shoot in HDV and convert is that the editor is capturing the footage using an SD camcorder - he lives miles away so I don't really want to leave my camera with him. I'm not sold on the 25P look - seems like a ubiquitous gimmick (the BBC use it a lot now on drama, to try to give the impression they're still shooting on Super 16). Prefer smoother 50i footage. But I may reassess after the project at hand.

July 11th, 2008, 08:58 AM	#8
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I guess some missed the part of your original post about shooting SD at 25F. As you found, you can capture it with any DV deck or camera. I think in your case it probably makes sense to continue to do that. I shoot 24F for all my projects, even though they end up SD, but nobody loads the footage but me, so it's not a problem.