1920 x 1080 ? at DVinfo.net

Leo Bolanos · June 27th, 2008, 03:02 PM

Can you capture 1920 x 1080 from the XHa1 outputs ? Some guys in this forum say this is possible, but I don´t believe it. Any success doing this ?

Marcel D. Van Someren · June 27th, 2008, 03:46 PM

If you look at the A1's user manual it clearly shows that 1440x1080 is the max out of the camera, even using the component out. Only the G1 has 1920x1080 out of the SDI.

Now that being said, I routinely dump the a1's .m2t output onto a 1920x1080 timeline and it looks great.

Leo Bolanos · June 28th, 2008, 06:26 PM

What aspect ratio do you use for that ? or you just strech the video to fit the frame ?

Micky Hulse · June 28th, 2008, 09:48 PM

Marcel, do you use FCP?

If so, what is your easy setup?

Thanks!
M

Marcel D. Van Someren · June 28th, 2008, 11:35 PM

Sorry, I'm a PC user so no FCP. I use SpeedEdit from Newtek, or Vegas 8, or Premier Pro, etc.

What I do is set up my timeline as 1920x1080 progressive 1:1 pixel (square pixel), 16x9 aspect. Then I just drop my HDV which I typically shoot in 24f on the timeline. When I render it out, I render it as either 1920x1080 or 1280x720. The only exception is when I shoot for 2.35:1 aspect ratio.

1440x1080 is not square pixel, so changing the timeline to square pixel causes it to look correctly at 1920x1080.

Micky Hulse · June 29th, 2008, 12:27 PM

Hi Marcel, thanks for the reply. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcel D. Van Someren

Sorry, I'm a PC user so no FCP. I use SpeedEdit from Newtek, or Vegas 8, or Premier Pro, etc.

What I do is set up my timeline as 1920x1080 progressive 1:1 pixel (square pixel), 16x9 aspect. Then I just drop my HDV which I typically shoot in 24f on the timeline. When I render it out, I render it as either 1920x1080 or 1280x720. The only exception is when I shoot for 2.35:1 aspect ratio.

1440x1080 is not square pixel, so changing the timeline to square pixel causes it to look correctly at 1920x1080.

Ooooh, interesting!

I too use a PC (at home), so this is helpful.

Would your technique work with HDV 60i footage?

Typically, with that workflow, what is your target output?

I have never output progressive footage to DVD or back to tape... How does that work? I mean, do you then have to convert back to interlaced footage?

Thanks Marcel! :)

Cheers,
Micky

(Hope I am not hi-jacking thread.)

Marcel D. Van Someren · June 29th, 2008, 07:14 PM

Well, I never output anything interlaced. I always either shoot it progressive or deinterlace it when I render it out.

Yes it does work with 60i footage, although I've only done that once with HD 60i and that was in SpeedEdit. I haven't tried it in other NLE's so you'll have to experiment.

Also, when I output to DVD, it is also progressive. As a matter of fact, I just finished taking my dad's footage that he shot in Europe last month on a JVC SD mini DV camcorder that was shot in interlace, converted it to progressive and dumped it to DVD. It looks very good. What you don't get are those funny interlace motion artifacts.

The majority of the stuff ends up as 1280x720p or 1280x540p cineform aspect ratio. But I try to store any footage that I think I might use in the future as 1920x1080p.

Micky Hulse · June 29th, 2008, 08:49 PM

Marcel, thanks for sharing all of that info! Very very interesting.

Makes me wish my Sony HDR-FX7 shot progressive.

At work, we have a couple of A1's, but I have yet to shoot in anything other than HDV 60i. :(

Again, thanks for tips.

Btw, do you have any good links that cover some of the concepts you have mentioned?

A billion thanks!
Cheers,
Micky

Marcel D. Van Someren · June 29th, 2008, 08:59 PM

No, I don't know of any links. When I first got the A1 and SpeedEdit, I posted a question asking anyone for a good workflow in SE using the A1. I never got anything substantial so I just started experimenting. Eventually I came up with the workflow I described above. I'm sure it's nothing new, but it took me a while to get it figured out.

If you want to see some footage that was shot at 60i but edited in a progressive timeline and output at 1280x536, you can see it here:

http://exposureroom.com/members/mvan...23b13748e8f66/

This was originally shot at 60i and edited on a 1920x1080p timeline. I rendered a Cineform aspect ratio version for this site.

Leo Bolanos · June 29th, 2008, 09:27 PM

Hi Marcel...

One question. How does Speededit compares to Premiere por cs3 ? any advantages when working with progressive video from the XH A1 ?

Marcel D. Van Someren · June 29th, 2008, 10:03 PM

Well, I'm not sure that there are advantages specific to progressive video. I just find SE very well suited to working with HDV from the A1 in realtime. It uses a combination of timeline and storyboard editing which makes even complicated edits pretty quick.

There are things that PP CS3 can do that SE can't in the current version like 5.1 surround sound. But then there are many things that SE does better than PP CS3 in my opinion. SE is currently my favorite NLE. Unfortunately, Newtek doesn't offer a trial version so it's tough to get a feel for the application unless you're lucky enough to have a dealer nearby or a friend that has it. But you can check out the info and an online demo at www.Newtek.com/speededit

Micky Hulse · June 30th, 2008, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcel D. Van Someren

No, I don't know of any links. When I first got the A1 and SpeedEdit, I posted a question asking anyone for a good workflow in SE using the A1. I never got anything substantial so I just started experimenting. Eventually I came up with the workflow I described above. I'm sure it's nothing new, but it took me a while to get it figured out.

Ah, interesting... SpeedEdit sounds like a good app to check out. PPCS3 is not my fav... I really wish I had FCP on my PC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcel D. Van Someren

If you want to see some footage that was shot at 60i but edited in a progressive timeline and output at 1280x536, you can see it here:

http://exposureroom.com/members/mvan...23b13748e8f66/

This was originally shot at 60i and edited on a 1920x1080p timeline. I rendered a Cineform aspect ratio version for this site.

Oh, wow, excellent work!

I really like the mood of the whole piece. The exposure/colors are very soothing to the eye. Looks like an amazing place!

Just out of curiosity, why Cineform aspect ratio (1280x536)? Is that in the same aspect ratio as 1920x1080? Do you do that for DVD, or just to have footage that is a little easier to work with (i.e. non HDV footage?)

Hehe, one of these days I will just take the plunge, and shoot a vid at 24p.

Thanks Marcel!!! I really appreciate your time.

Excellent video!

Cheers,
Micky

Marcel D. Van Someren · June 30th, 2008, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micky Hulse

Just out of curiosity, why Cineform aspect ratio (1280x536)? Is that in the same aspect ratio as 1920x1080? Do you do that for DVD, or just to have footage that is a little easier to work with (i.e. non HDV footage?)

Sorry, I mistyped....I meant to say Cinemascope, not Cineform. I really should of made the Video 1280x540 but that was my first attempt at that aspect ratio. The Cinemascope aspect ratio which is 2.35:1 is used in some of the films you would see in the theaters. I just happen to like that look. In the A1, you can set up guides to help you frame for that aspect ratio.

Ian Wright · July 1st, 2008, 11:02 AM

I'm a little confused now. I can accept that the G1 has a port which outputs at a higher resolution but does that mean it has more pixels? If not, do both the A&G1 record 1920 to tape? If so, would an HD tape deck be able to retrieve the higher HD resolution?

TIA
Ian
http://www.festivalpreviews.com

Marcel D. Van Someren · July 1st, 2008, 11:28 AM

No, niether the A1 or the G1 can record 1920x1080 to tape, they both record 1440x1080. That is the HDV standard. The G1 can output uncompressed 1920x1080 only through the SDI connection which means you are teathered to a PC or some highspeed storage device.

HDV (1440x1080) uses rectangular pixels so even though the horizontal resolution is less than 1920x1080 (which uses square pixels) it still displays with the proper 16x9 aspect ratio.

So what I'm doing is setting up a 1920x1080 square pixel timeline and dropping in the 1440x1080 rectangular pixel clip. I then output it as a 1920x1080 square pixel file. Again, I've only done this in SpeedEdit and it works very well. Your results may vary with other NLEs. Give it a try and see what happens.

June 27th, 2008, 03:02 PM	#1
Leo Bolanos New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 16	1920 x 1080 ? Can you capture 1920 x 1080 from the XHa1 outputs ? Some guys in this forum say this is possible, but I don´t believe it. Any success doing this ?

June 29th, 2008, 08:49 PM	#8
Micky Hulse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA Posts: 213	Marcel, thanks for sharing all of that info! Very very interesting. Makes me wish my Sony HDR-FX7 shot progressive. At work, we have a couple of A1's, but I have yet to shoot in anything other than HDV 60i. :( Again, thanks for tips. Btw, do you have any good links that cover some of the concepts you have mentioned? A billion thanks! Cheers, Micky __________________ Home: See *"Work"* :) Work: Canon XH A1, CS3/CS4/CS5/Final Cut Studio/Final Cut Express/Premiere Elements

June 27th, 2008, 03:46 PM	#2
Marcel D. Van Someren Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 325	If you look at the A1's user manual it clearly shows that 1440x1080 is the max out of the camera, even using the component out. Only the G1 has 1920x1080 out of the SDI. Now that being said, I routinely dump the a1's .m2t output onto a 1920x1080 timeline and it looks great.

June 28th, 2008, 06:26 PM	#3
Leo Bolanos New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 16	What aspect ratio do you use for that ? or you just strech the video to fit the frame ?

June 28th, 2008, 09:48 PM	#4
Micky Hulse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA Posts: 213	Marcel, do you use FCP? If so, what is your easy setup? Thanks! M

June 28th, 2008, 11:35 PM	#5
Marcel D. Van Someren Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 325	Sorry, I'm a PC user so no FCP. I use SpeedEdit from Newtek, or Vegas 8, or Premier Pro, etc. What I do is set up my timeline as 1920x1080 progressive 1:1 pixel (square pixel), 16x9 aspect. Then I just drop my HDV which I typically shoot in 24f on the timeline. When I render it out, I render it as either 1920x1080 or 1280x720. The only exception is when I shoot for 2.35:1 aspect ratio. 1440x1080 is not square pixel, so changing the timeline to square pixel causes it to look correctly at 1920x1080.

June 29th, 2008, 07:14 PM	#7
Marcel D. Van Someren Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 325	Well, I never output anything interlaced. I always either shoot it progressive or deinterlace it when I render it out. Yes it does work with 60i footage, although I've only done that once with HD 60i and that was in SpeedEdit. I haven't tried it in other NLE's so you'll have to experiment. Also, when I output to DVD, it is also progressive. As a matter of fact, I just finished taking my dad's footage that he shot in Europe last month on a JVC SD mini DV camcorder that was shot in interlace, converted it to progressive and dumped it to DVD. It looks very good. What you don't get are those funny interlace motion artifacts. The majority of the stuff ends up as 1280x720p or 1280x540p cineform aspect ratio. But I try to store any footage that I think I might use in the future as 1920x1080p.

June 29th, 2008, 08:59 PM	#9
Marcel D. Van Someren Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 325	No, I don't know of any links. When I first got the A1 and SpeedEdit, I posted a question asking anyone for a good workflow in SE using the A1. I never got anything substantial so I just started experimenting. Eventually I came up with the workflow I described above. I'm sure it's nothing new, but it took me a while to get it figured out. If you want to see some footage that was shot at 60i but edited in a progressive timeline and output at 1280x536, you can see it here: http://exposureroom.com/members/mvan...23b13748e8f66/ This was originally shot at 60i and edited on a 1920x1080p timeline. I rendered a Cineform aspect ratio version for this site.

June 29th, 2008, 09:27 PM	#10
Leo Bolanos New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 16	Hi Marcel... One question. How does Speededit compares to Premiere por cs3 ? any advantages when working with progressive video from the XH A1 ?

June 29th, 2008, 10:03 PM	#11
Marcel D. Van Someren Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 325	Well, I'm not sure that there are advantages specific to progressive video. I just find SE very well suited to working with HDV from the A1 in realtime. It uses a combination of timeline and storyboard editing which makes even complicated edits pretty quick. There are things that PP CS3 can do that SE can't in the current version like 5.1 surround sound. But then there are many things that SE does better than PP CS3 in my opinion. SE is currently my favorite NLE. Unfortunately, Newtek doesn't offer a trial version so it's tough to get a feel for the application unless you're lucky enough to have a dealer nearby or a friend that has it. But you can check out the info and an online demo at www.Newtek.com/speededit

July 1st, 2008, 11:02 AM	#14
Ian Wright Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Edinburgh UK Posts: 94	I'm a little confused now. I can accept that the G1 has a port which outputs at a higher resolution but does that mean it has more pixels? If not, do both the A&G1 record 1920 to tape? If so, would an HD tape deck be able to retrieve the higher HD resolution? TIA Ian http://www.festivalpreviews.com

July 1st, 2008, 11:28 AM	#15
Marcel D. Van Someren Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 325	No, niether the A1 or the G1 can record 1920x1080 to tape, they both record 1440x1080. That is the HDV standard. The G1 can output uncompressed 1920x1080 only through the SDI connection which means you are teathered to a PC or some highspeed storage device. HDV (1440x1080) uses rectangular pixels so even though the horizontal resolution is less than 1920x1080 (which uses square pixels) it still displays with the proper 16x9 aspect ratio. So what I'm doing is setting up a 1920x1080 square pixel timeline and dropping in the 1440x1080 rectangular pixel clip. I then output it as a 1920x1080 square pixel file. Again, I've only done this in SpeedEdit and it works very well. Your results may vary with other NLEs. Give it a try and see what happens.