Audio recorded on seperate tracks? at DVinfo.net

Brian Overman · April 8th, 2008, 01:45 PM

I'm filming an event in a huge auditorium tonight. If I have XLR 1 coming off the sound board and my external shotgun going into XLR 2 will I be able to seperate these audio sources on the tape later, or will it just mix them at the levels I have set?

I'd like to have the option of taking out the ambient sound sometimes and just using the XLR 1 (mixer) audio as this is a spoken word event.

Bill Pryor · April 8th, 2008, 01:56 PM

You can run two separate channels in, but be careful of the little switch on the right over the XLR inputs. It's a bit counterintuitive. If it's set to Ch. 1/2, that's not good. If it's set to Ch. 1, then your XLR 1 will go to Ch. 1 and XLR 2 to Ch. 2. Also, you can not record line in to one channel in and mic in to the other. All you get is mic or line, no and/or. So you'll have to get a mic level out from the mixer, or run your shotgun through the mixer if you can't do that so you can have 2 line levels.

Brian Overman · April 8th, 2008, 02:09 PM

I do not understand mic level out from the mixer. What would be the difference between line and mic level out? I cannot run my shotgun through the mixer, that is for sure.
So what do I need coming from the mixer. My intention was to run an XLR out from the mixer. What can I do to differentiate between mic and line out from the mixer?
Thanks for your quick response.

Mike Flynn · April 8th, 2008, 06:22 PM

Well in that case the mixer would have to be giving you a "mic" out signal, rather than a "line" out. That may or may not be possible depending on if they (whoever is on the soundboard) are sending line out for something else.

Bill Pryor · April 8th, 2008, 06:30 PM

Most mixers can output either a mic level or line level. If you are going to go directly into the camera with your shotgun mic, then you have to be at mic level for both inputs. So you'll need to check in advance if the soundman can give you a mic level output from his mixer. If all he can do is line level, then your choice would be to rent/borrow a portable mixer and run your shotgun through that to get line level.

Chris Soucy · April 8th, 2008, 06:43 PM

If you're getting line from the board, I believe you can fit a 50db attentuator to the line to knock it down to mic level for the camera.

I think it's 50, might want to trawl a few of the audio threads to double check that.

This is the sort of thing I mean.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ttenuator.html

tho' interestingly, all of the ones on B&H say "MIC" not "line".

CS

Don Palomaki · April 9th, 2008, 06:57 AM

Quote:

If all he can do is line level, then your choice would be to rent/borrow a portable mixer and run your shotgun through that to get line level.

Actually, you could use an attenuator in the line feed to reduce the mixer output to MIC level. Depending on your mic's output level, and the mixer settings, you may need an attenuator on the order of as little as 40 dB, possibly more if your mic output is rather low.

Quote:

...will I be able to seperate these audio sources on the tape later, or will it just mix them at the levels I have set?

The recording on tape will be at the level you set for each channel. They will not be mixed on tape. How they are captured to your computer depends on its capture software. You might end up with a separate audio file for each channel, a stereo audio file containing both channels, or the stereo audio embedded in an AVI file. In any case, you should be able to switch or pan between the recorded mixer feed and the mic feed using the audio mixing capability of your NLE.

In any case, if you can test as much of the various configurations and option as you can before the event to be sure it works and that you are comfortable with it.

Bill Watson · April 9th, 2008, 01:19 PM

With a bit of luck you might be able to get your local electronic shop to make you up a basic attenuator. There's nearly always one young gun in these places who has all the knowledge and enthusiasm.

Simply it would be a small potentiometer. You're looking to match a 600 ohm mic input impedance.

It's not a major job and you can experiment with potentiometer values.

Start with maybe a 10k ohm? (they're pretty cheap) until you're happy with the result.

Bottom line is you won't harm the A1 as we're talking small signal stuff anyway.

Tom Majeski · April 9th, 2008, 08:55 PM

In case any of you likes to make this stuff, here's a guide. The line to mic values are at the bottom of the table.

http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/

Kiflom Bahta · April 9th, 2008, 11:28 PM

how about using the A1 ATn? can that be enough and is it possible to get distorted sound from the board. Thx

Don Palomaki · April 10th, 2008, 06:58 AM

the A1's MIC ATT setting, if that is what you are asking about, is a means of reducing the gain of the input stage of the mic preamp (by about 20 dB) to accommodate higher output microphones and/or loud venues. It reduces the chance of the audio signal being clipped in the preamps. In general it does not provide sufficient attenuation to accommodate a line-level signal.

It also has the additional benefit of reducing the noise floor, so it is the better of the MIC settings to use if your microphones (or other source) have sufficient output to allow you to obtain normal record levels.

Kiflom Bahta · April 10th, 2008, 01:48 PM

Is it possible to use the A1 ATT in addition to line ATT

Don Palomaki · April 11th, 2008, 07:09 AM

If I understand the question correctly - The ATT setting in the XH-A1 is independent of any external attenuators you might add to the line output from a mixer, etc. so you could have external and internal attenuation in effect at the same time.

However, I suspect that you would only use that combination if necessary to keep the recorded audio levels in the desire range.

April 8th, 2008, 01:45 PM	#1
Brian Overman New Boot Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 11	Audio recorded on seperate tracks? I'm filming an event in a huge auditorium tonight. If I have XLR 1 coming off the sound board and my external shotgun going into XLR 2 will I be able to seperate these audio sources on the tape later, or will it just mix them at the levels I have set? I'd like to have the option of taking out the ambient sound sometimes and just using the XLR 1 (mixer) audio as this is a spoken word event.

April 8th, 2008, 02:09 PM	#3
Brian Overman New Boot Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 11	Audio is my weak point I do not understand mic level out from the mixer. What would be the difference between line and mic level out? I cannot run my shotgun through the mixer, that is for sure. So what do I need coming from the mixer. My intention was to run an XLR out from the mixer. What can I do to differentiate between mic and line out from the mixer? Thanks for your quick response.

April 8th, 2008, 06:43 PM	#6
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hi Brian......... If you're getting line from the board, I believe you can fit a 50db attentuator to the line to knock it down to mic level for the camera. I think it's 50, might want to trawl a few of the audio threads to double check that. This is the sort of thing I mean. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ttenuator.html tho' interestingly, all of the ones on B&H say "MIC" not "line". CS

April 10th, 2008, 06:58 AM	#11
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	the A1's MIC ATT setting, if that is what you are asking about, is a means of reducing the gain of the input stage of the mic preamp (by about 20 dB) to accommodate higher output microphones and/or loud venues. It reduces the chance of the audio signal being clipped in the preamps. In general it does not provide sufficient attenuation to accommodate a line-level signal. It also has the additional benefit of reducing the noise floor, so it is the better of the MIC settings to use if your microphones (or other source) have sufficient output to allow you to obtain normal record levels. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

April 11th, 2008, 07:09 AM	#13
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	If I understand the question correctly - The ATT setting in the XH-A1 is independent of any external attenuators you might add to the line output from a mixer, etc. so you could have external and internal attenuation in effect at the same time. However, I suspect that you would only use that combination if necessary to keep the recorded audio levels in the desire range. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

April 8th, 2008, 01:56 PM	#2
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	You can run two separate channels in, but be careful of the little switch on the right over the XLR inputs. It's a bit counterintuitive. If it's set to Ch. 1/2, that's not good. If it's set to Ch. 1, then your XLR 1 will go to Ch. 1 and XLR 2 to Ch. 2. Also, you can not record line in to one channel in and mic in to the other. All you get is mic or line, no and/or. So you'll have to get a mic level out from the mixer, or run your shotgun through the mixer if you can't do that so you can have 2 line levels.

April 8th, 2008, 06:22 PM	#4
Mike Flynn Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 94	Well in that case the mixer would have to be giving you a "mic" out signal, rather than a "line" out. That may or may not be possible depending on if they (whoever is on the soundboard) are sending line out for something else.

April 8th, 2008, 06:30 PM	#5
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Most mixers can output either a mic level or line level. If you are going to go directly into the camera with your shotgun mic, then you have to be at mic level for both inputs. So you'll need to check in advance if the soundman can give you a mic level output from his mixer. If all he can do is line level, then your choice would be to rent/borrow a portable mixer and run your shotgun through that to get line level.

April 9th, 2008, 01:19 PM	#8
Bill Watson Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Noosa Queensland Australia Posts: 248	With a bit of luck you might be able to get your local electronic shop to make you up a basic attenuator. There's nearly always one young gun in these places who has all the knowledge and enthusiasm. Simply it would be a small potentiometer. You're looking to match a 600 ohm mic input impedance. It's not a major job and you can experiment with potentiometer values. Start with maybe a 10k ohm? (they're pretty cheap) until you're happy with the result. Bottom line is you won't harm the A1 as we're talking small signal stuff anyway.

April 9th, 2008, 08:55 PM	#9
Tom Majeski Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: State College PA Posts: 45	In case any of you likes to make this stuff, here's a guide. The line to mic values are at the bottom of the table. http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/

April 9th, 2008, 11:28 PM	#10
Kiflom Bahta Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 203	how about using the A1 ATn? can that be enough and is it possible to get distorted sound from the board. Thx

April 10th, 2008, 01:48 PM	#12
Kiflom Bahta Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 203	Is it possible to use the A1 ATT in addition to line ATT