White Balance & Exposure for Dummies at DVinfo.net

Alain St-Amour · March 28th, 2008, 09:14 AM

I've had my Canon XH-A1 for a few months now (my experience level is about one notch above newbie) and I'm interested in capturing the most neutral and accurate footage possible.

I've also been following the 'TrueColor configuration for XH A1' thread and I'm currently using Paolos' recommended preset.

Could someone please explain to me what their routines are for setting proper white balance and exposure for this camera?

Is there a recommended white balance and/or exposure card?

I checked out a PhotoVision product http://www.photovisionvideo.com/stor...egory_Code=DCT

but I'm unsure if this product works for video and I'm still unclear if, and how, I can use the 18% gray panel.

Little help? Lotsa help?

By the way, I am stunned at how helpful and professional people are on this forum. I have already learned a lot.

Thank you in advance!

Jim Press · March 28th, 2008, 05:15 PM

Hi Alain,

All I do to white balance is do what is described in the Canon manual: hold a sheet of white of white paper (make sure it's white and not "off white"!) towards the camera in the light you'll be shooting, and hold down the white balance button until it stops flashing. It works fine for me. I asked a news cameraman about using charts and he just laughed and said sure, you can, but for 99% of his shooting there was just no need to. That was good enough for me.

For exposure, you can turn on the zebra bars so they're visible on the flip out LCD screen (zebra bars are diagonal lines that appear on your screen wherever the camera's exposure meter determines a part of the footage is over exposed). If you're shooting in manual mode (or aperture priority) you then adjust the aperture (iris ring on the lens) until the zebra bars diminish/go. This just takes a bit of practice and you should review your footage to see the results. Pretty quickly you'll work out how much overexposure you are happy with (or not!). In my experience, especially filming outside, it's not unusual to have some part of the footage overexposed--to get absolutely no over exposure, the rest of your footage may be too dark, so having a small amount of overexposure (eg a part of someone's hair; or some leaves on a part of the tree) may be the lesser of 2 evils.

Trust this helps.

Bryan Gilchrist · March 28th, 2008, 10:58 PM

I use the white foam board that you can pick up at any school/office supplies store. It also works great for bouncing light too.

They can be had for about 89 cents each.

Steve Wolla · March 29th, 2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alain St-Amour

Is there a recommended white balance and/or exposure card?

I checked out a PhotoVision product http://www.photovisionvideo.com/stor...egory_Code=DCT

but I'm unsure if this product works for video and I'm still unclear if, and how, I can use the 18% gray panel.

Little help? Lotsa help?

By the way, I am stunned at how helpful and professional people are on this forum. I have already learned a lot.

Thank you in advance!

While I have no experience with this particular product that you linked to, I can say that I have used a standard 18% photo gray card before and it works great. I just bought one from the local camera store for about $5.
Well worth it, especially on the critical stuff for clients. Before every important shoot, I would recommend turning off the AWB, and setting WB manually, especially indoors. I would use the photo gray card 1st, but white foam board is OK, too.

Chris Hurd · March 29th, 2008, 06:00 AM

Nothing against those folks using a plain sheet of white paper, but in my experience there's too much variation in "white" among different types and weights of paper. So I use a CamWhite chart from DSC Labs -- mine is part of their CamBook spiral-bound chart package which has their white card, greyscale, multiburst, backfocus and color chart in one 30cm x 20cm book: http://www.dsclabs.com/cambook.htm

Jeff Mayne · March 29th, 2008, 05:49 PM

I have been using a device that fits like a filter on the front of your lens called a expodisc, it is the neetest filter and gives you accurate white balance every time becasue it is reading the actual light through the lens and not different varations of white or grey. There is a couple videos on the expodisc web site that will give you more insight to this wonderful tool. http://www.expodisc.com/?gclid=CO2lm...FRzHIgodH24wNg I use it on my video camera and my Canon 20D...

Allan Black · March 29th, 2008, 10:59 PM

I second that Jeff.

Cheers.

Petri Kaipiainen · March 30th, 2008, 12:20 AM

Normal office copy paper is good enough in an emegency (I have even balanced from a white wall sometimes), but high grade photo printing paper is just about the whitest thing we all have laying around at home or office, besides styrofoam reflectors, of course. Back it up with some cardboard and you are all set. Bigger white card is better than a small one, as the card must fill the whole frame.

It is easy and cheap to also print a series of "warm cards" from those photo papers. Just add a tiny bit of blue, and you have cards giving you nice warm effects. Much cheaper than store bought.

Allan Black · March 30th, 2008, 01:15 AM

Well that's right too, and if you shoot a wedding wear a white shirt and balance off the sleeve. The single women go nuts.

Cheers.

Colin McDonald · March 30th, 2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allan Black

Well that's right too, and if you shoot a wedding wear a white shirt and balance off the sleeve. The single women go nuts.

Cheers.

I keep a warm card under my kilt for that effect.

Only kidding!

Alain St-Amour · March 30th, 2008, 07:38 AM

Thanks so much for your replies.

My apologies, I wasn't as specific as I should have been. I use the zebra (mine is set to 100 ire) and I always manually WB.

What I wanted to know was, is there any difference between just white balancing on a sheet of white paper or using a pre-made chart? I suspect, and this thread seems to confirm, that not all white sheets are created equal.

1 - Is there an industry standard 'white' for the purposes of white balancing? - Here I am referring specifically to the hue of white itself here, not a product.

2 - If yes, is there a product known to offer this specific hue of white?

3 - These 18% gray scale charts. What are they for and how do you use them?

My goal is to try and capture the most neutral, real, and natural footage I can in order to give myself more options in post.

Thanks again to everyone.

Kenneth Johnson · March 30th, 2008, 08:10 AM

try this site

http://www.apogeephoto.com/mag2-6/mag2-9st_1.shtml

Jeff Rhode · March 30th, 2008, 08:14 AM

Alain,

I have noted differences in gray cards between different brands, and I'm sure that white cards are o different. I have a nice plastic gray card from calumet that is the most neutral I have, but I also have a Kodak cardboard gray card that is about 10CC magenta. Not noticeable, unless the 2 are side by side. But a real difference.
That expodisc looks pretty good--reading the ambient instead of the reflected should give better results.

Alan Craig · March 30th, 2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Rhode

Alain,

I have noted differences in gray cards between different brands, and I'm sure that white cards are o different. I have a nice plastic gray card from calumet that is the most neutral I have, but I also have a Kodak cardboard gray card that is about 10CC magenta. Not noticeable, unless the 2 are side by side. But a real difference.
That expodisc looks pretty good--reading the ambient instead of the reflected should give better results.

I have just ordered an expodisc for my XHA1 some very good reviews and will let you know how it performs after I have used it

Alan

Allan Black · March 30th, 2008, 03:11 PM

When you order an Expodisc for the A1, IMO get the 82mm. With step-down rings it'll cover your other lens. Check you're ordering the correct one, there are warm ones available, as I found out too late.

Cheers.

March 28th, 2008, 09:14 AM	#1
Alain St-Amour New Boot Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada Posts: 20	White Balance & Exposure for Dummies I've had my Canon XH-A1 for a few months now (my experience level is about one notch above newbie) and I'm interested in capturing the most neutral and accurate footage possible. I've also been following the 'TrueColor configuration for XH A1' thread and I'm currently using Paolos' recommended preset. Could someone please explain to me what their routines are for setting proper white balance and exposure for this camera? Is there a recommended white balance and/or exposure card? I checked out a PhotoVision product http://www.photovisionvideo.com/stor...egory_Code=DCT but I'm unsure if this product works for video and I'm still unclear if, and how, I can use the 18% gray panel. Little help? Lotsa help? By the way, I am stunned at how helpful and professional people are on this forum. I have already learned a lot. Thank you in advance! __________________ In Solidarity, Alain St-Amour

March 29th, 2008, 06:00 AM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Nothing against those folks using a plain sheet of white paper, but in my experience there's too much variation in "white" among different types and weights of paper. So I use a CamWhite chart from DSC Labs -- mine is part of their CamBook spiral-bound chart package which has their white card, greyscale, multiburst, backfocus and color chart in one 30cm x 20cm book: http://www.dsclabs.com/cambook.htm __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 29th, 2008, 05:49 PM	#6
Jeff Mayne Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Worthington, Iowa Posts: 191	I have been using a device that fits like a filter on the front of your lens called a expodisc, it is the neetest filter and gives you accurate white balance every time becasue it is reading the actual light through the lens and not different varations of white or grey. There is a couple videos on the expodisc web site that will give you more insight to this wonderful tool. http://www.expodisc.com/?gclid=CO2lm...FRzHIgodH24wNg I use it on my video camera and my Canon 20D... __________________ Jeff Mayne Gone Thinkin Outdoors

March 30th, 2008, 07:38 AM	#11
Alain St-Amour New Boot Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada Posts: 20	Thanks so much for your replies. My apologies, I wasn't as specific as I should have been. I use the zebra (mine is set to 100 ire) and I always manually WB. What I wanted to know was, is there any difference between just white balancing on a sheet of white paper or using a pre-made chart? I suspect, and this thread seems to confirm, that not all white sheets are created equal. 1 - Is there an industry standard 'white' for the purposes of white balancing? - Here I am referring specifically to the hue of white itself here, not a product. 2 - If yes, is there a product known to offer this specific hue of white? 3 - These 18% gray scale charts. What are they for and how do you use them? My goal is to try and capture the most neutral, real, and natural footage I can in order to give myself more options in post. Thanks again to everyone. __________________ In Solidarity, Alain St-Amour

March 28th, 2008, 05:15 PM	#2
Jim Press Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 55	Hi Alain, All I do to white balance is do what is described in the Canon manual: hold a sheet of white of white paper (make sure it's white and not "off white"!) towards the camera in the light you'll be shooting, and hold down the white balance button until it stops flashing. It works fine for me. I asked a news cameraman about using charts and he just laughed and said sure, you can, but for 99% of his shooting there was just no need to. That was good enough for me. For exposure, you can turn on the zebra bars so they're visible on the flip out LCD screen (zebra bars are diagonal lines that appear on your screen wherever the camera's exposure meter determines a part of the footage is over exposed). If you're shooting in manual mode (or aperture priority) you then adjust the aperture (iris ring on the lens) until the zebra bars diminish/go. This just takes a bit of practice and you should review your footage to see the results. Pretty quickly you'll work out how much overexposure you are happy with (or not!). In my experience, especially filming outside, it's not unusual to have some part of the footage overexposed--to get absolutely no over exposure, the rest of your footage may be too dark, so having a small amount of overexposure (eg a part of someone's hair; or some leaves on a part of the tree) may be the lesser of 2 evils. Trust this helps.

March 28th, 2008, 10:58 PM	#3
Bryan Gilchrist Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 224	I use the white foam board that you can pick up at any school/office supplies store. It also works great for bouncing light too. They can be had for about 89 cents each.

March 29th, 2008, 10:59 PM	#7
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,918	I second that Jeff. Cheers.

March 30th, 2008, 12:20 AM	#8
Petri Kaipiainen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Espoo Finland Posts: 380	Normal office copy paper is good enough in an emegency (I have even balanced from a white wall sometimes), but high grade photo printing paper is just about the whitest thing we all have laying around at home or office, besides styrofoam reflectors, of course. Back it up with some cardboard and you are all set. Bigger white card is better than a small one, as the card must fill the whole frame. It is easy and cheap to also print a series of "warm cards" from those photo papers. Just add a tiny bit of blue, and you have cards giving you nice warm effects. Much cheaper than store bought.

March 30th, 2008, 01:15 AM	#9
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,918	Well that's right too, and if you shoot a wedding wear a white shirt and balance off the sleeve. The single women go nuts. Cheers.

March 30th, 2008, 08:10 AM	#12
Kenneth Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida Posts: 70	try this site http://www.apogeephoto.com/mag2-6/mag2-9st_1.shtml

March 30th, 2008, 08:14 AM	#13
Jeff Rhode Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NJ, USA Posts: 169	Alain, I have noted differences in gray cards between different brands, and I'm sure that white cards are o different. I have a nice plastic gray card from calumet that is the most neutral I have, but I also have a Kodak cardboard gray card that is about 10CC magenta. Not noticeable, unless the 2 are side by side. But a real difference. That expodisc looks pretty good--reading the ambient instead of the reflected should give better results.

March 30th, 2008, 03:11 PM	#15
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,918	When you order an Expodisc for the A1, IMO get the 82mm. With step-down rings it'll cover your other lens. Check you're ordering the correct one, there are warm ones available, as I found out too late. Cheers.